Alk swings and confusion

[Alex's Nano Reef]

Just curious when was your last water change?

Every Saturday about a 15-25% water change Religiously

 

[Tiki_Reef]

Ph is at pretty much 8.2-8.25. Yes before I do a water change I heat the water up to basically the same temp. I do you that to check temp aswell as the little thermometer I use for the tank.

8.25 during the day and 8.2 at night?

 

[Alex's Nano Reef]

8.25 during the day and 8.2 at night?

Honestly I haven’t tested my ph at night in a while so I can’t give you a 100% figure but I will test it tonight Forsure after the lights turn off or early tommorow morning at like 6am

 

[Tiki_Reef]

Also I might have missed it what are your Calcium and Magnesium numbers looking like?

 

[Alex's Nano Reef]

In the 1350 range for mg and ca is usually 430-440 I don’t treat either as much anymore because they usually stay pretty steady because of the water changes at least I thought.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Just to reiterate what others have said, there is no chance any reef tank has an alk swing of multiple dKH each day unless you add that alk for the rise. Alk generally only declines, though if demand is very low, some other factors can make it slowly rise.

what exactly are you dosing and at what time?

 

[Alex's Nano Reef]

Just to reiterate what others have said, there is no chance any reef tank has an alk swing of multiple dKH each day unless you add that alk for the rise. Alk generally only declines, though if demand is very low, some other factors can make it slowly rise.

what exactly are you dosing and at what time?

I only dosed 2 times this week and then when I saw that alk reading I stopped. I would dose part A Of 2 little fishies c balance a hour before lights turn off then I would wait one hour in between parts and then dose the equal amount of Part B after the hour was up and the lights were off.

 

[Alex's Nano Reef]

Part B is the Alk Part of the 2 little fishies 2 part

 

[Alex's Nano Reef]

@Randy Holmes-Farley quick question what does cause normal swings in the tank. Because my lights turn on at 12 noon but my wrasse is awake from his sleep before the lights turn on making me thing maybe the daylight from outside is causing something. I’m no expert so this is a shot in the dark

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

@Randy Holmes-Farley quick question what does cause normal swings in the tank. Because my lights turn on at 12 noon but my wrasse is awake from his sleep before the lights turn on making me thing maybe the daylight from outside is causing something. I’m no expert so this is a shot in the dark

Alk does not swing on its own. It only swings if you dose out of step with consumption.

I suspect your observation was test error.

pH is the primary thing that swings day to night, and ORP, but that is a pH effect on ORP.

 

[Alex's Nano Reef]

Alk does not swing on its own. It only swings if you dose out of step with consumption.

I suspect your observation was test error.

pH is the primary thing that swings day to night, and ORP, but that is a pH effect on ORP.

Just tested it. And I’m at 7.7 maybe the reading was a testing error but I don’t see how because I test the exact same way every time same pipettes for each test and I rinse them and dry them with RO. I’m doing a water change tommorow I will be testing at 730 at night now and I will keep an eye on parameters. But there’s gotta be something up my sps have bleached their tips now branches but all my lps zoas and shrooms are fine

 

[Alex's Nano Reef]

If you were in my shoes how would you proceed with calculating consumption and dosing that consumtion(what time of day , how fast or slow , stuff like that)

 

[Alex's Nano Reef]

@Randy Holmes-Farley when I dose after figuring out the consumption rate should I take the tube I have from my skimmer intake that runs outside out and allow the higher co2 levels in my house take over the intake?

 

[Garf]

@Randy Holmes-Farley when I dose after figuring out the consumption rate should I take the tube I have from my skimmer intake that runs outside out and allow the higher co2 levels in my house take over the intake?

I like the old salifert test kit. It’s a pH indicator with a known acid titrant. Not a lot that can go wrong.

 

[Screwgunner]

I would test alk right after water change for 2 Saturdays see how much your alkalinity dropped. On the second Sat. Calculate how much you need to bring it up to the first sat. Then spreed that dose out through the week . Then ajust that to your Saturday waterchange.

 

[Alex's Nano Reef]

I would test alk right after water change for 2 Saturdays see how much your alkalinity dropped. On the second Sat. Calculate how much you need to bring it up to the first sat. Then spreed that dose out through the week . Then ajust that to your Saturday waterchange.

Why do this if I can test at the same time for at least 3-4 days in a row and use that as the consumption rate why would I wait a week to change the water again and then calculate. I’m curious?

 

[Screwgunner]

Because of your water change it is going to raise your alkalinity everytime you do one. That is why I do not do water changes. As long as you have a way of getting rid of your nutrients with out doing water changes. Why spend the money on salt. We can get away with adding every day . Your salt mix is 10 or 11 dkh you go aweek with out water change your alk comes down you add to make up for that then you do a water change now you are way above what you need.

 

[Screwgunner]

Not unless you are keeping your alkalinity the same as your mix then it should not matter.

 

[UnderseaOddities]

I do not have a controller or any auto dosing but I was dosing. I would test the alk at the same time of day for 3 days then whatever the average consumption was between the days I would dose that nightly.

I would say get a dosing pump you can dose by hand but you have to know the how and why it else you big 3 can get knocked out of line


If u have a deep substrate trace minerals can sometimes chelate put into the water an precipitate calcium carbonate and other bi product which in turn can cause all to raise


To me this sounds like an inaccurate test to be real, ditch whatever it is ur using and pick up a sailfert or aquaforest alk cal mag reagents

Aim for alk 8.2 to 8.6 (8.5 is prime

Cal 400 to 480

Mag 1300 to 1450

Dosing by hand isnt accurate unless you yourself are a very consistent person and test religiously everyday and are on auto water change or have system under 40g tm balling or dosing by hand will eventually disrupt equilibrium and get thrown off


Dosing pumps are better also when yo dose you need to count every drop 20 drops = 1 ml then once you figure out swing dose alk first wait 5 mins test cal then fo mag last if even needed


But with the dosing pump you can do a test dont dose for a day see the swing set pump to accommodate said swing



Most pro reeferd tho are either gonna test everyday or eventually invest in an apex


Some people even exceed the need of bottles in full sps systems or wholesale growout that calcium is in such demand that a fluidized media reactor( calcium reacotor) is constant replenishing trace mineral


The main thing like anything is consistency even if you dont go with the params I stated above you can still keep coral and thrive the alk just cant dip .3 point in 24 to 48 hours remaining u have to keep it within 2 points up or down of whatever you decide


But 8.5 is what everyone including myself and many other people claim is best for growth and keeps ph cal mag and 23 other ions in check at 8.5 it's the magic number

And keep you sg 1.025 and temp with a 1 degrees radiant up or down of 78 degrees no more no less and always have a back up heater in your house for emergency


In the days of ceramic and glass heater most pro reefers would run 2 heater to compensate for the difference now with titanium it's set it forget it

 

[UnderseaOddities]

This is why I’m perplexed because no I’m not adding the buffer to my ro as it decimated my Calcium levels. But it was to keep ph up but then I ran a hose from the skimmer outside.I’m running Red Sea coral pro so possibly that high alk content is adding to the problem. But could that be causing Dailey swings I’m gonna test my alk in about 30 minutes then when I get home from work I’ll post the numbers it will prolly be a insane swing.

That's why too red sea mixes high alk out the box(more geared toward sps only systems with heavy bioload)

I would say for a mixed reef go wit something like io reef Crystal's, fritz rpm tropic marin pro meersalz as these are more available cheaper ,mixes at lower alk but still have the cal and mag on point


Io mixes at 8.5 to 8.9 at 1.025 but varies batch to batch some higher some lower

Tropic marin is clean but expensive
And has perfect numbers

Fritz rpm mixes at 8.5 to 9 but is way cleaner than io leaving less residuals