Alkalinity 20+ due to spilled PH buffer. Help

2clowns1tank · Feb 22, 2016

So I knocked over my PH buffer while doing a water change (bad positioning and the cap wasnt on super tight). My PH is between 8.0 and 8.3 but my alkalinity is showing to be over 20dkh. It has been less than 1 hour since this happened and I am making up my last bit of saltmix now (should be between 10 and 15g.

My tank is a 93g and all I have in it right now is 2 shrimp and some various snails. My tank finished it cycle a few days ago so its still fresh.

Should I just make the big water change now and test my levels after? My shrimp have not instantly died so there is that. Any suggestions? I could get new salt by wens, otherwise I would just be putting RO water in until my salinity dips 1 point and I would stop.

mcarroll · Feb 23, 2016

Have your water change water ready to go, but if you don't see any negative reaction from your critters, then don't over-react.

Doing nothing and just waiting for alkalinity to come down on its own (which it will, eventually) may be fine.

IMO.

McMullen · Feb 23, 2016

Water change. New tank, doesn't sound like corals in there sucking up Alk.

mcarroll · Feb 23, 2016

Lots of biological processes will consume carbonates....but without corals you're right it will be fairly slow.

If the critters show no negative reaction, I don't see a reason to waste any saltwater is all.

A regular water change would be OK, but given the stock level should be totally optional at this point.

McMullen · Feb 23, 2016

So a big alk swing would wipe out sps coral along with others. I have no idea what it may (if anything) do to bacteria, pods, shrimp, etc. Perhaps a logical fallacy, but seems if bad for coral, would also be bad for other life forms.

2clowns1tank · Feb 23, 2016

I guess the other part is I want a semi normal level (under 10) so I can start my fish phase. I using my (low) but remaining salt and changed 15g. I will test levels in 1 hour.

2clowns1tank · Feb 23, 2016

I guess the other part is I want a semi normal level (under 10) so I can start my fish phase. I using my (low) but remaining salt and changed 15g. I will test levels in 1 hour.

2clowns1tank · Feb 23, 2016

Its about 18 DKH. I guess ill do a 40% water change in 2 days and see if I can get the levels sub 15.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Feb 23, 2016

One potentially easier solution that doing lots of big water changes can be to reduce the alk in the water change mix to a lower level (like 3 dKH) using muriatic acid (but I wouldn't add it directly to the tank).

McMullen · Feb 23, 2016

More brave than I with that one...

2clowns1tank · Feb 23, 2016

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
One potentially easier solution that doing lots of big water changes can be to reduce the alk in the water change mix to a lower level (like 3 dKH) using muriatic acid (but I wouldn't add it directly to the tank).

You know that completely slipped my mind. Albeit I read about it somewhere prior to the incident and forgot. However how much would you suggest to add to say 30g of water to get the dkh in my tank to be sub 12? Its around 18dkh at the moment.

Also would you suggest leaving it mix for 24h after adding it to the fresh salt mix?

Also the last part is wouldn't I see a drastic drop in PH also which I would think is more dangerous to the inverts that the high alk is at the moment. I think...

Randy Holmes-Farley · Feb 23, 2016

2clowns1tank said:
You know that completely slipped my mind. Albeit I read about it somewhere prior to the incident and forgot. However how much would you suggest to add to say 30g of water to get the dkh in my tank to be sub 12? Its around 18dkh at the moment.

Also would you suggest leaving it mix for 24h after adding it to the fresh salt mix?

Strong aeration is important after adding the acid.

0.35 mL per gallon will drop the alk by about 2.8 dKH.

Depending onw hat salt mix you use and how high its alk is, adding 1 mL per gallon might be reasonable. Remember it is nasty to get on yourself and definitely avoid getting in your eyes.

Here's a typical thread discussing it:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ho...lower-alkalinity-like-you-can-with-ph.188293/

and here's a copy and paste of my blurb on it:

You can use muriatic acid or certain freshwater buffers.
Both will lower pH similarly and a lot. There's no way around the pH lowering when reducing alkalinity. You do not want to add CO2. You want to remove CO2 from the tank via aeration.

For that reason, it is best to do it in water change water that is aerated to raise pH before using, or to do it very slowly in the tank (over many days).

The "acidity" (that being essentially negative alkalinity) of muriatic acid straight from the bottle is about 11,000 meq/L.

So adding 1/11,000 of the water volume as this acid will drop alkalinity by 1 meq/l (2.8 dKH).

I would not drop more than 1 dKH per day due to the big pH drop.

You'll need to aerate well after adding the acid to blow off the excess CO2 and bring up the pH.

2clowns1tank · Feb 23, 2016

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Strong aeration is important after adding the acid.

0.35 mL per gallon will drop the alk by about 2.8 dKH.

Depending onw hat salt mix you use and how high its alk is, adding 1 mL per gallon might be reasonable. Remember it is nasty to get on yourself and definitely avoid getting in your eyes.

Here's a typical thread discussing it:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ho...lower-alkalinity-like-you-can-with-ph.188293/

and here's a copy and paste of my blurb on it:

You can use muriatic acid or certain freshwater buffers.
Both will lower pH similarly and a lot. There's no way around the pH lowering when reducing alkalinity. You do not want to add CO2. You want to remove CO2 from the tank via aeration.

For that reason, it is best to do it in water change water that is aerated to raise pH before using, or to do it very slowly in the tank (over many days).

The "acidity" (that being essentially negative alkalinity) of muriatic acid straight from the bottle is about 11,000 meq/L.

So adding 1/11,000 of the water volume as this acid will drop alkalinity by 1 meq/l (2.8 dKH).

I would not drop more than 1 dKH per day due to the big pH drop.

You'll need to aerate well after adding the acid to blow off the excess CO2 and bring up the pH.

MY man thanks!

I have a 2.8g ATO that takes about 2-3 days to empty due to evap. Do you think just putting it in the ATO (pre mix'd and aerated) with .96mL in the mix (rough head math) would an OK drop to deal with over 3 days?

Randy Holmes-Farley · Feb 23, 2016

2clowns1tank said:
MY man thanks!

I have a 2.8g ATO that takes about 2-3 days to empty due to evap. Do you think just putting it in the ATO (pre mix'd and aerated) with .96mL in the mix (rough head math) would an OK drop to deal with over 3 days?

Not sure what you mean. You mean take out that amount of salt water first?

rock_lobster · Feb 23, 2016

NO big deal at all. Your lucky you have no coral. inverts and fish dont really care about alkalinity. Just wait a few days and if you want it to drop faster add something to your tank that can decay like a piece of frozen shrimp. The bacteria will quickly pull the alkalinity down.

2clowns1tank · Feb 23, 2016

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Not sure what you mean. You mean take out that amount of salt water first?

I mean just add the acid mix to my ATO water mix. It will then slow drip over 3 days into the tank. Shouldn't cause a huge drop in PH that way?

rock_lobster · Feb 23, 2016

2clowns1tank said:
I mean just add the acid mix to my ATO water mix. It will then slow drip over 3 days into the tank. Shouldn't cause a huge drop in PH that way?

I wouldnt mess with that. Just add some shrimp. The decaying process will produce lots of acid and naturally drop your alk as well as giving a robust boost to your biofilter load.

2clowns1tank · Feb 23, 2016

Another good suggestion and your right but EVEN with my skimmer plus zeovit (which im running), wont a still get a gnarly mini cycle?

Randy Holmes-Farley · Feb 23, 2016

2clowns1tank said:
I mean just add the acid mix to my ATO water mix. It will then slow drip over 3 days into the tank. Shouldn't cause a huge drop in PH that way?

No. As I said, you should not add it directly to the tank as there is too much lowering of the pH.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Feb 23, 2016

rock_lobster said:
I wouldnt mess with that. Just add some shrimp. The decaying process will produce lots of acid and naturally drop your alk as well as giving a robust boost to your biofilter load.

It will only lower alkalinity as it produces large amounts of nitrate. Then you have to deal with the nitrate.

Organic acids will not permanently reduce the alkalinity.