Alkalinity And Calcium Fluctuate through out the day?

[reefandreptileautomation]

To throw another wrench into the issue - You also have to 'learn' about the type of alkalinity being measured. I was just schooled on this the past week. Titration methods meausre 'Total Alkalinity" - which is comprised of Carbonate Alkalinity and Borate Alkalinity. Corals due not consume both of these types of alkalinity at the same rate. The Borate Alkalinity is a 'value' that is different for different aquarium system. So during the day what's really going up and down is the Carbonate at a much greater rate than Borate. But most of the testing methods only measure Total Alk. Some aquariums the Borate Alkalinity can be under 5% of the total. And in other systems it could be 40%+. If you have one of the aquariums where the Borate is 40%. Then you could see stable Alk readings, when in fact your true Carbonate is changing more than you would like.

And you could also think you are on target with a dkh of "8.5" - But in fact the carbonate alkalinity of your system could be way below what you really want to target. And your non-connected frag tank with a dkh of 8.5 has a much lower Borate Alkalinity level which means the Carbonate Alkalinity is much higher ie closer to the 8.5 you want.

Doesn't that make things more confusing

Dave B

Thanks Dave! But should the Alkalinity be the direct opposite of the Calcium? That is where I am confused/concerned.

 

[Snookin]

Yes but is +/- 30 PPM of calcium normal? Somedays it is not even close.

Mine fluctuates like 20 a day. Your tank isn’t unstable.

 

[reefandreptileautomation]

Mine fluctuates like 20 a day. Your tank isn’t unstable.

Cool. Again just trying to figure out if the trident is working properly. Keep in mind within 2 hours it will go up to 440 then down to 410 then back up. That is not normal I would assume. Again this is not a question of stability and a question is the equipment is working properly. I am encouraging others with the Trident to chime in and inform me if there unit does the same thing.

 

[CrissyCoralsGirl]

I just learned a hard lesson. I moved all my sps into another tank. This tank is tied into the main system so I thought everything would stay the same. I woke the next morning and my orange passion and a couple montis were bleached. My alkalinity had spiked. The sps quit using the normal amount of elements because they were stressed from the move. My alk intake is still really low. I am assuming it will pick back up after the coral acclimates to the new tank.

 

[Snookin]

Cool. Again just trying to figure out if the trident is working properly. Keep in mind within 2 hours it will go up to 440 then down to 410 then back up. That is not normal I would assume. Again this is not a question of stability and a question is the equipment is working properly. I am encouraging others with the Trident to chime in and inform me if there unit does the same thing.

I have a Trident and mine fluctuates between test. Any test kit will. I’m telling you you’re within a normal fluctuation range. It all depends on your tanks uptake of Ca and Alk and also your dosing schedule. If you are worried about accuracy of Trident buy different test kits for Ca and Alk and test at same time the Trident is testing. I did this with Hanna checkers for a couple days and the Trident and Hanna were very close to same readings and they fluctuated every couple hours.

 

[reefandreptileautomation]

I have a Trident and mine fluctuates between test. Any test kit will. I’m telling you you’re within a normal fluctuation range. It all depends on your tanks uptake of Ca and Alk and also your dosing schedule. If you are worried about accuracy of Trident buy different test kits for Ca and Alk and test at same time the Trident is testing. I did this with Hanna checkers for a couple days and the Trident and Hanna were very close to same readings and they fluctuated every couple hours.

Thank you so much for letting me know yours does the same and I am not the only one. I use a calcium reactor so I am not dosing. The dips of +/-20 is what makes me scratch my head and wonder if this $600 unit is working. You have explained that yours does similar things so that makes me feel better. I want to mention however that this does not happen with Mag or Alkalinity. The numbers are much much closer to each other every test. So it is just calcium I experience this.

 

[Ranjib]

If what you see is due to coral calcification, how do you explain the up and down trends of calcium and alkalinity do not follow each other?

It is. They are reverse .

 

[reefandreptileautomation]

It is. They are reverse .

I am confused as well. I would assume coral calcification would be as one is consumed the other is also consumed. Is alkalinity is consumed how would calcium then go up and visa versa?

 

[dz6t]

It is. They are reverse .

That just plainly not true. Coral takes in Calcium and Alk at the same time during calcification. Because the OP is using a calcium reactor, the reactor is putting in calcium and alk at the same time.

When you are using dosing pumps and over dose, you can see calcium and alk suppress each other. But this is not the case with the OP.

 

[reefandreptileautomation]

So it is just coincidental that my calcium is about the opposite of the alkalinity in tens or rising and falling?

 

[dz6t]

So it is just coincidental that my calcium is about the opposite of the alkalinity in tens or rising and falling?

No, it is the calcium test method that Trident uses has a large margin of error.
Other calcium test kits also have large margin of error,
On the other hand, Alk test kit are normally spot on because the testing method has very small margin of error.

 

[reefandreptileautomation]

Makes complete sense. I also spoke to Neptune today. It has a large margin for error which is unfortunate but as others have said and I agree Alkalnity is the most important parameter and as long calcium is within range the calcium reactor is doing its thing. Thanks for your help.

 

[dz6t]

Makes complete sense. I also spoke to Neptune today. It has a large margin for error which is unfortunate but as others have said and I agree Alkalnity is the most important parameter and as long calcium is within range the calcium reactor is doing its thing. Thanks for your help.

Exactly right!

 

[Ranjib]

That just plainly not true. Coral takes in Calcium and Alk at the same time during calcification. Because the OP is using a calcium reactor, the reactor is putting in calcium and alk at the same time.

When you are using dosing pumps and over dose, you can see calcium and alk suppress each other. But this is not the case with the OP.

They are absorbed together , but their observed level will depend on the overall balance of which rate they are being introduced vs the rate at which they are being absorbed. I’m curious if you have any insights into those (I.e. how does this chart will look like with a negative control ) .

 

[jez]

As we now are starting to see these things in greater detail rather than the snapshot of the past it will open up more questions.
It is also important to remember that Alkalinity will be greatly used by calcification but also Coralline growth, and of course biological activity from fish and bacteria exhaling Co2. Basically there is a ton of stuff going on besides coral growth

 

[Shinister]

Ive been running a calrx as well with a trident doing the testing. There are slight variations from time to time but for 90% of the time, my alk starts going down from around noon til around 10-11 (lights out at 10) and climbs up from midnight on. It will go up and down .4-.5 dkh. I just started adding 2-part as well (sodium hydroxide) to up my ph and try out the trident controlled dosing.

 

[DivingTheWorld]

I don't use Trident (I will when the craziness subsides) or a CR. I use dosers and recently I had an issue with precipitation so I switched up my schedule. I now have a separate schedule for lights on and for lights off. Your tank consumption rate will be quite different between the two. Anyways, what I noticed after making adjustments to these two schedules and getting my dosing normalized again is that my tank consumes more Alk during the day and more Cal during the night. With my two schedules I'm able to keep the fluctuations much lower though and I think that will help with long term coral health.

But to reiterate, I think your Trident appears to be working correctly and the test results valid.