Alkalinity/Calcium Daily drop with no livestock

[GoVols]

I love the aquascape, that is some impressive rockwork!

Please tell me that isn't a recent shot! IMO it looks way too clean for a reef tank. Does your sump look that clean, also?

+1
That is a really cool scape.

 

[Jeff Miotke]

I love the aquascape, that is some impressive rockwork!

Please tell me that isn't a recent shot! IMO it looks way too clean for a reef tank. Does your sump look that clean, also?

Thanks, yea aquascaping is my thing and have been competing in the international aquascaping contests.

Yes that photo was taken an hour ago or so. Yes the sump looks pretty much the same. just a bit of detritus here and there. The tank actually looked even more stark a couple weeks ago. I did the stop dosing altogether thing on March 12th to March 20th and I pulled my Marinepure block out of the sump at that time because I cant get any readable phosphates and Nitrates are less than 1ppm consistently. Since then I have that wierd brown stuff growing on the rocks. You can really see it well in the platygyra pic coming out of the base on the right side. Looks like it has a beard or something. Stuff seems to be dieing off though so probably just a consequence of removing the the block.

 

[GoVols]

Thanks again to everyone helping me out.

Visited the LFS. They measured Mg for me using Salifert:

Frag tank: 1350
Display tank: 1380

My measurements with RedSea on same water sample:

Frag tank: 1800
Display tank: 1600

So looks like Mg is spot on. So RedSea test kit found its way to the trash. Its interesting because I had another LFS verify my Mg and they used a Redsea kit and also showed a high reading of like 1550.

So at least one less thing to worry about being off. Ive extended the dosing period throughout the day to keep parameters from fluctuating so much.

Just did a reading of Alkalinity and it is 8.1.

last few days reading with dose of 2 part:

3/29 8.4 Dose 65ml
3/30 8.2 Dose 85ml
3/31 7.9 Dose 85ml
4/1 7.5 Dose 125ml
4/2 7.9 Dose 125ml
4/3 7.8 Dose 125ml
4/4 8.1 Changed to spread 125ml throughout day (so this reading would include last nights 125 + 25 from today)

So at this point going to just keep dosing what the tank needs to stay at around 8 dkh and observe. Also added a small coralline coated piece of live rock rubble to the display tank. I figured it wouldnt hurt to get more life in the tank.

Here are the photos i promised:
Live rock with Coralline on it right in the center of the photo.

Micromussa Photo - Im thinking the loss of color is from not enough light. Its under about 85 par currently. What do you think?

Platygyra Photo -

Frag tank

FTS

@Jeff Miotke

Thanks for sharing and hope your on your way to better times.

Regards, GoVols

 

[anit77]

Thanks again to everyone helping me out.

Visited the LFS. They measured Mg for me using Salifert:

Frag tank: 1350
Display tank: 1380

My measurements with RedSea on same water sample:

Frag tank: 1800
Display tank: 1600

So looks like Mg is spot on. So RedSea test kit found its way to the trash. Its interesting because I had another LFS verify my Mg and they used a Redsea kit and also showed a high reading of like 1550.

So at least one less thing to worry about being off. Ive extended the dosing period throughout the day to keep parameters from fluctuating so much.

Just did a reading of Alkalinity and it is 8.1.

last few days reading with dose of 2 part:

3/29 8.4 Dose 65ml
3/30 8.2 Dose 85ml
3/31 7.9 Dose 85ml
4/1 7.5 Dose 125ml
4/2 7.9 Dose 125ml
4/3 7.8 Dose 125ml
4/4 8.1 Changed to spread 125ml throughout day (so this reading would include last nights 125 + 25 from today)

So at this point going to just keep dosing what the tank needs to stay at around 8 dkh and observe. Also added a small coralline coated piece of live rock rubble to the display tank. I figured it wouldnt hurt to get more life in the tank.

Here are the photos i promised:
Live rock with Coralline on it right in the center of the photo.

FTS

Hey guys and @Randy Holmes-Farley

With this being a RedSea Reefer 525 I figure he has about 105 gallons of total water volume after rock, substrate and equipment. When you see the current FTS above and the dosing amounts listed does that look right to you?

Also this is the rock he used, so there was a lot of purple on the rock already. And Jeff, that really is a beautiful scape! You guys need to see some of his fresh water pics and awards he's received.

Anyway I'm about three months ahead of Jeff getting my system running and I just went through something similar with my Alk. I have 260 gallons of total volume with roughly 30 coral frags. The rock in my tank has a good amount of coraline but the rock in my sump is covered. I'm currently dosing 2part at 114ml/day set across a full 24hrs. With feeding I usually end up around 110-112ml/day. Here's my dosing schedule with my DoS:
Alk 00:00-23:50 +114ml Cal 00:10-23:59 +114ml
This sets each one dosing 1.2ml every 10min and they're 10min apart. My alk is stable in the mid to upper 8's and my Cal is at 430.

The reason I'm asking if his dosing looks right to you is because it seems a bit excessive to me and I want to make sure I'm not missing something. For some reason I will not be surprised if his reading tomorrow has dropped below 8dkh again. I'm I wrong in this thinking? I'm still learning too.

 

[zachxlutz]

I have 260 gallons of total volume with roughly 30 coral frags. The rock in my tank has a good amount of coraline but the rock in my sump is covered. I'm currently dosing 2part at 114ml/day set across a full 24hrs. With feeding I usually end up around 110-112ml/day. Here's my dosing schedule with my DoS:
Alk 00:00-23:50 +114ml Cal 00:10-23:59 +114ml
This sets each one dosing 1.2ml every 10min and they're 10min apart. My alk is stable in the mid to upper 8's and my Cal is at 430.

The reason I'm asking if his dosing looks right to you is because it seems a bit excessive to me and I want to make sure I'm not missing something. For some reason I will not be surprised if his reading tomorrow has dropped below 8dkh again. I'm I wrong in this thinking? I'm still learning too.

Hey man, been following along with this from over at the ARC forums, too. Check out this link: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-much-alkalinity-and-calcium-2-part-are-you-dosing.297575/ Lots of great info here on how much folks are dosing and what livestock they're currently keeping.

 

[Brew12]

Thanks, yea aquascaping is my thing and have been competing in the international aquascaping contests.

That would explain it! Fantastic job!

Yes that photo was taken an hour ago or so. Yes the sump looks pretty much the same. just a bit of detritus here and there. The tank actually looked even more stark a couple weeks ago. I did the stop dosing altogether thing on March 12th to March 20th and I pulled my Marinepure block out of the sump at that time because I cant get any readable phosphates and Nitrates are less than 1ppm consistently. Since then I have that wierd brown stuff growing on the rocks. You can really see it well in the platygyra pic coming out of the base on the right side. Looks like it has a beard or something. Stuff seems to be dieing off though so probably just a consequence of removing the the block.

Did your tank ever go through it's "ugly stage" with at least diatoms forming? I've never seen a reef tank that clean after 2 months, let alone 6. Are you adding anything else to the tank, or running media, that could be impacting things?

The reason I'm asking if his dosing looks right to you is because it seems a bit excessive to me and I want to make sure I'm not missing something. For some reason I will not be surprised if his reading tomorrow has dropped below 8dkh again. I'm I wrong in this thinking? I'm still learning too.

No, you are not wrong in your thinking. Something is going on with his system. It could be the very low nutrients but its almost like there is a sterilizer in the system.

 

[anit77]

Hey man, been following along with this from over at the ARC forums, too. Check out this link: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-much-alkalinity-and-calcium-2-part-are-you-dosing.297575/ Lots of great info here on how much folks are dosing and what livestock they're currently keeping.

Hey Zack, I was reading that last week. Thanks for reminding me to go get caught back up!

No, you are not wrong in your thinking. Something is going on with his system. It could be the very low nutrients but its almost like there is a sterilizer in the system.

Thanks Brew, for at least confirming that. I think it's been preciping on the rock and possibly in the sand directly at the edges and under the rock. When I had this problem the those sand areas took the brunt of it. With Jeff's tank you can see the marked difference in the appearance of the rock. That's a lot of 2part to be adding with no coral real in there to speak of. Hoping we can get him on track.

 

[Brew12]

Sure would be nice if these issues were easier. So much complex chemistry.

The only thing that would make sense to me right now is if you have bacteria consuming the nutrients and carbon which is causing the Alk to drop. The nitrogen cycle bacteria can contribute to this until you reach an equilibrium. If you do too many water changes or if you have another large bacteria source, you may not be reaching an equilibrium.

Seeing as you have such incredibly low nutrients I am guessing you have some bacteria consuming the Nitrates and Phosphates. Are you adding any probiotics or other items which may be causing bacteria growth?

 

[Jeff Miotke]

Sure would be nice if these issues were easier. So much complex chemistry.

The only thing that would make sense to me right now is if you have bacteria consuming the nutrients and carbon which is causing the Alk to drop. The nitrogen cycle bacteria can contribute to this until you reach an equilibrium. If you do too many water changes or if you have another large bacteria source, you may not be reaching an equilibrium.

Seeing as you have such incredibly low nutrients I am guessing you have some bacteria consuming the Nitrates and Phosphates. Are you adding any probiotics or other items which may be causing bacteria growth?

I did start the system with Aquaforest probiotic reef salt and followed the carbon dosing. I figured out around November that this was a mistake. I switched to the plain reef salt and stopped dosing. I did a 90% water change at this point. Nitrate measurements always show below 1ppm and phosphate is always 0 on the hannah checker. I feed quite heavily thinking that i would eventually see these values come up. Is it possible that there is still probiotic/carbon dosng stuff in the system?

The tank has had multiple bouts of the uglies. It has one right now with whatever the stringy brown stuff is. There is also a few small areas of red slime.

 

[GoVols]

I did start the system with Aquaforest probiotic reef salt and followed the carbon dosing. I figured out around November that this was a mistake. I switched to the plain reef salt and stopped dosing. I did a 90% water change at this point. Nitrate measurements always show below 1ppm and phosphate is always 0 on the hannah checker. I feed quite heavily thinking that i would eventually see these values come up. Is it possible that there is still probiotic/carbon dosng stuff in the system?

The tank has had multiple bouts of the uglies. It has one right now with whatever the stringy brown stuff is. There is also a few small areas of red slime.

The bacteria and carbon is long gone.
If you have been feeding heavy and you have algae and cyano. Then they could be holding in the phos. and nitrates and not letting the phos and nitrates in your water column. Thus, tricking you and your test kits.

 

[Brew12]

I did start the system with Aquaforest probiotic reef salt and followed the carbon dosing. I figured out around November that this was a mistake. I switched to the plain reef salt and stopped dosing. I did a 90% water change at this point. Nitrate measurements always show below 1ppm and phosphate is always 0 on the hannah checker. I feed quite heavily thinking that i would eventually see these values come up. Is it possible that there is still probiotic/carbon dosng stuff in the system?

The tank has had multiple bouts of the uglies. It has one right now with whatever the stringy brown stuff is. There is also a few small areas of red slime.

Do you run filter socks? If so, are they getting clogged without looking too dirty? Clear slimy stuff in the filter socks is a pretty good sign of excess bacteria growth.

 

[blizzardscout2]

I had a similar experience while cycling my Red Sea Reefer 170. The Alk was dropping up to 1 dKH over the last month every few days with mag around mid 1300s and Ca around 350. No precip, just corraline growth with a mixture of live rock and new. Now it is fairly stable. I am using RSCP.

Oh yeah your rock work is fantastic! Absolutely stunning and I look forward to seeing what you put on it! Don't throw in the towel, it is just a hiccup.

 

[Jeff Miotke]

Do you run filter socks? If so, are they getting clogged without looking too dirty? Clear slimy stuff in the filter socks is a pretty good sign of excess bacteria growth.

Yes i have the mesh socks and have to clean every other day or it overflows. Its usually a brown slimy mess.

 

[GoVols]

Yes i have the mesh socks and have to clean every other day or it overflows. Its usually a brown slimy mess.

Did the slimy stuff appear while you were using the AF ProBio method and were you dosing the Pro Bio-S and the NP Pro?

 

[Brew12]

Yes i have the mesh socks and have to clean every other day or it overflows. Its usually a brown slimy mess.

Well, sounds like you are still growing excess bacteria for some reason. I'm at a loss as to what would be fueling it that wouldn't also be impacting your frag tank.

 

[GoVols]

Well, sounds like you are still growing excess bacteria for some reason. I'm at a loss as to what would be fueling it that wouldn't also be impacting your frag tank.

Could it have started with the AF ProBio method and maybe the fuel has been coming from the heavy feeding?

 

[Brew12]

Could it have started with the AF ProBio method and maybe the fuel has become from the heavy feeding?

I have no idea. I've never used any product like that so I am going to have to do more research.

@Jeff Miotke Could you please have a less complicated problem next time?

 

[GoVols]

I have no idea. I've never used any product like that so I am going to have to do more research.

@Jeff Miotke Could you please have a less complicated problem next time?

If he started the AF ProBio method too soon or too much it can crank up cyano.

I used the Pro Bio-S with and NP Pro and you really need to watch it closely when you start off. The ProBio salt is carbon with bacteria too.

 

[Jeff Miotke]

I have no idea. I've never used any product like that so I am going to have to do more research.

@Jeff Miotke Could you please have a less complicated problem next time?

Hahah... seems like Whenever i reach out its mission impossible as i only ask for help as a last resort deal.

The brown slimy socks have been that way since the start. Just thought that was normal.

 

[GoVols]

Hahah... seems like Whenever i reach out its mission impossible as i only ask for help as a last resort deal.

The brown slimy socks have been that way since the start. Just thought that was normal.

Then most likely the AF ProBio method got it going and cyano is one tuff booger once it gets going.
Were you dosing the Pro Bio-S with the NP Pro too?
Pro Bio-S is bacteria and NP Pro is carbon that fuels the bacteria.