Alkalinity/Calcium issues

Surfbum311

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Hello, first post here, so this will be my intro post, as well as some questions on my tank chemistry. I'm fairly new to the reefing game, but I am loving it thus far. In may, I started a build with a 40 breeder and 20L sump from petco's dollar per gallon sale. Budget friendly way to get a reef tank going, I thought to myself.. LOL. As I delved deeper into the build I soon realized those were the cheapest items I would buy throughout the process.

Fast forward 3 months, and Ive got a tank full of nice looking rock, a pair of clowns, tailspot blenny, cleaner shrimp, and around 20 or so assorted frags of softies, lps, a few monti caps, and a few birdsnest corals, along with a few hitch-hikers who got in somehow (I dip everything). Everything is seemingly thriving, but I feel I have an underlying issue that I need to figure out.

Up until about a month ago, my levels remained fairly stable, and any alkalinity or calcium that were being used were being easily replenished with weekly 10% water changes. Then, around the last week of July, I took a 5 day vacation. When I returned my Alk had dropped from 9 dkh to 5.5, but my calcium was still where it usually stayed, around 430-440. I immediately did a water change, a little larger than usual, around 10 gallons, so about 20% of total volume. This brought my alkalinity up to around 6-6.5 if I recall correctly. I then started dosing kalk through my ato in hopes it would slowly bring my levels back where I wanted them. Didn't work. After a few days, calcium was near 500 ppm and Alk was at 7. At that point I ditched the kalk, and started dosing small amounts of baking soda and brought my dkh back up to 9 over the course of about 3-4 days. I started testing daily, and noted that my tank was using close to 1dkh of alkalinity per day, with little to no day to day change in calcium.

So for the past month, I have been dosing solely to maintain alkalinity at 9.5 dkh, and my calcium has stayed between 480-500. I'm using reef crystals. I just tested a fresh mix at 1.025 sg and its testing at 9 dkh alkalinity and 540 ppm calcium, which is pretty far off from the advertised levels. I'm using red sea pro test kits. I'll also add that I started with Red sea salt (blue bucket) to begin with and switched to reef crystals shortly before noticing these issues. It was also around the time I started adding corals, so it could be a coincedence.

I guess I'm just wondering if it's normal for my tank to be using up alkalinity so quickly, while calcium is stable day to day without dosing. I've been doing some reading on the relationship between Alk and Calcium, but it's a bit hard for me to grasp for some reason. Any insight is much appreciated. I'll leave you guys with a few crappy phone pics of my tank.:)
20160826_214634.jpg
20160828_153631.jpg
20160830_144346.jpg
 
Hello, first post here, so this will be my intro post, as well as some questions on my tank chemistry. I'm fairly new to the reefing game, but I am loving it thus far. In may, I started a build with a 40 breeder and 20L sump from petco's dollar per gallon sale. Budget friendly way to get a reef tank going, I thought to myself.. LOL. As I delved deeper into the build I soon realized those were the cheapest items I would buy throughout the process.

Fast forward 3 months, and Ive got a tank full of nice looking rock, a pair of clowns, tailspot blenny, cleaner shrimp, and around 20 or so assorted frags of softies, lps, a few monti caps, and a few birdsnest corals, along with a few hitch-hikers who got in somehow (I dip everything). Everything is seemingly thriving, but I feel I have an underlying issue that I need to figure out.

Up until about a month ago, my levels remained fairly stable, and any alkalinity or calcium that were being used were being easily replenished with weekly 10% water changes. Then, around the last week of July, I took a 5 day vacation. When I returned my Alk had dropped from 9 dkh to 5.5, but my calcium was still where it usually stayed, around 430-440. I immediately did a water change, a little larger than usual, around 10 gallons, so about 20% of total volume. This brought my alkalinity up to around 6-6.5 if I recall correctly. I then started dosing kalk through my ato in hopes it would slowly bring my levels back where I wanted them. Didn't work. After a few days, calcium was near 500 ppm and Alk was at 7. At that point I ditched the kalk, and started dosing small amounts of baking soda and brought my dkh back up to 9 over the course of about 3-4 days. I started testing daily, and noted that my tank was using close to 1dkh of alkalinity per day, with little to no day to day change in calcium.

So for the past month, I have been dosing solely to maintain alkalinity at 9.5 dkh, and my calcium has stayed between 480-500. I'm using reef crystals. I just tested a fresh mix at 1.025 sg and its testing at 9 dkh alkalinity and 540 ppm calcium, which is pretty far off from the advertised levels. I'm using red sea pro test kits. I'll also add that I started with Red sea salt (blue bucket) to begin with and switched to reef crystals shortly before noticing these issues. It was also around the time I started adding corals, so it could be a coincedence.

I guess I'm just wondering if it's normal for my tank to be using up alkalinity so quickly, while calcium is stable day to day without dosing. I've been doing some reading on the relationship between Alk and Calcium, but it's a bit hard for me to grasp for some reason. Any insight is much appreciated. I'll leave you guys with a few crappy phone pics of my tank.:)
20160826_214634.jpg
20160828_153631.jpg
20160830_144346.jpg


As you stated your fresh made salt water has 540ppm calcium and your testing shows 480-500ppm so In fact you are using calcium and alkalinity.

What is your magnesium at?

Calcium , alkalinity and magnesium all work together.

Kalkwasser is great for maintaining levels at a specific point but it's not really meant to adjust levels.
 
My 20 gallon nuvo consumes 0.36 dkh a day while only consuming 0.2 ppm of calcium a day. So in three days, I drop about 1.08 dkh while calcium only drops 0.6 ppm during those 3 days.

I just dose alkalinity everyday while calcium maybe once a week.

So it isn't abnormal. I would just recommend dosing alkalinity if that is the only thing dropping. I have no sps coral and very few lps. I'm just zoanthids, frogspawns and rock flower anemones/BTAs.
 
As you stated your fresh made salt water has 540ppm calcium and your testing shows 480-500ppm so In fact you are using calcium and alkalinity.

What is your magnesium at?

Calcium , alkalinity and magnesium all work together.

Kalkwasser is great for maintaining levels at a specific point but it's not really meant to adjust levels.

As I finished my post, I kind of realized I had answered my own question with the fact that my saltwater is testing at 540 ppm calcium. I think the high calcium in my salt mix is keeping my levels stable, but that still doesn't explain the need for daily dosing to supplement alkalinity. Aren't alk and cal usually used at about the same rate?

My mag is on the high end around 1425. I test it weekly and it stays right around there.

I learned from my mistake with the kalk. I'll give it another go once I get my levels where I want them. All are good except for calcium. I may need to lay off water changes or switch salts to get it down where I want it.
 
My 20 gallon nuvo consumes 0.36 dkh a day while only consuming 0.2 ppm of calcium a day. So in three days, I drop about 1.08 dkh while calcium only drops 0.6 ppm during those 3 days.

I just dose alkalinity everyday while calcium maybe once a week.

So it isn't abnormal. I would just recommend dosing alkalinity if that is the only thing dropping. I have no sps coral and very few lps. I'm just zoanthids, frogspawns and rock flower anemones/BTAs.

Good to know I'm not alone. I'll keep doing what I'm doing for the time being as it seems to be working. Everything in my tank is happy. But I would eventually like to get my calcium down to around 425.
 
As I finished my post, I kind of realized I had answered my own question with the fact that my saltwater is testing at 540 ppm calcium. I think the high calcium in my salt mix is keeping my levels stable, but that still doesn't explain the need for daily dosing to supplement alkalinity. Aren't alk and cal usually used at about the same rate?

My mag is on the high end around 1425. I test it weekly and it stays right around there.

I learned from my mistake with the kalk. I'll give it another go once I get my levels where I want them. All are good except for calcium. I may need to lay off water changes or switch salts to get it down where I want it.


Alkalinity is one of those things that you'll notice daily will drop or raise depending on what your doing. The corals you have are building so this is where it's going .

Yes you have answered your own questions... Lol I think you'll be just fine.

What I would do.

Keep an eye on the alk and dose if needed.

Let the calcium fall into line before you do a water change.

Keep an eye on the mag.

Here is a handy calculator to help you out.

http://reef.diesyst.com/chemcalc/chemcalc.html
 
Up until about a month ago, my levels remained fairly stable, and any alkalinity or calcium that were being used were being easily replenished with weekly 10% water changes. Then, around the last week of July, I took a 5 day vacation. When I returned my Alk had dropped from 9 dkh to 5.5, but my calcium was still where it usually stayed, around 430-440.

That isn't because demand is not "equal". It very likely is close to it. It is because seawater has a huge amount of calcium relative to alkalinity.

The table below is exactly "equal" use of calcium and alkalinity to make calcium carbonate,a nd in fact real demand for calcium is even a bit lower since amgneisuma nd strontium takes it place in some of the calcium carbonate solids . Lack of adequate supplementing of both ALWAYS shows up first is dropping alkalinity.

Calcium..........Alkalinity
450 ppm............11.2 dKH
440 ppm.............9.8 dKH
430 ppm............8.4 dKH
420 ppm.............7 dKH
410 ppm.............5.6 dKH

This has much more discussion of these and related issues:

When Do Calcium and Alkalinity Demand Not Exactly Balance? by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-12/rhf/index.htm
 

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