Alkalinity during cycling

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I’m presenting 3 weeks into cycling my 180.5 tank and alkalinity has gone from 7.8 to 6.4. Should I worry about this so early in the game. I plan on using Tropic Marin All For Reef but didn’t think I should need to be dosing an empty tank which likely won’t have corals for MONTHS.
 
I’m presenting 3 weeks into cycling my 180.5 tank and alkalinity has gone from 7.8 to 6.4. Should I worry about this so early in the game. I plan on using Tropic Marin All For Reef but didn’t think I should need to be dosing an empty tank which likely won’t have corals for MONTHS.
You don't need to worry about it while you're cycling
 
I looked at your post history TW

your cycle is done, you're now past cycling, and into reefing choices. this will help you move from one phase of concern into another set :)

-never test for ammonia again on this reef if you want to save yourself false stall headaches. your non-digital test kits are subject to mislead you late in the game if you keep testing for cycle params after a cycle has closed. yours is done.

ammonia isn't a param that creeps out of control if we don't do things to prevent it, being post-cycle inherently means ammonia will remain controlled for any bioload you choose. if a given disease killed off fish while you're gone and you come home to high ammonia, that's not a cycle issue that's a disease issue. ammonia rising will never precede a fish kill in a display reef. it'll be hardware issues or disease that get em, but not a cycle issue at week 3

we wont test for nitrite due to reasons Randy has listed in myriad posts and writeups. You have already seen that nitrite presence affects your nitrate test kit accuracy, so wait until roughly day 60 total setup time before reacting to any nitrate. I have never tested for nitrate nor owned the kit and I keep all common corals for decades, it's not a required param to know unless you're determined to know it. get a digital kit if you want to accurately know nitrate.


your cycle is done because you've moved ammonia to zero or close to it twice now...once was enough. if your reef has a stack of rocks that's cooked in bottle bac and feed for 3 weeks, you were done cycling on day ten even though your test kits may not have agreed. digital ammonia testers would have agreed. you're done cycling and into fish disease prevention choices, and chemistry measures for a typical running reef now.

You're done cycling because waiting any longer for parameter changes can't make your tank safer for fish. Only specific disease preps from the disease forum can provide initial fish safety.
 
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I looked at your post history TW

your cycle is done, you're now past cycling, and into reefing choices. this will help you move from one phase of concern into another set :)

-never test for ammonia again on this reef if you want to save yourself false stall headaches. your non-digital test kits are subject to mislead you late in the game if you keep testing for cycle params after a cycle has closed. yours is done.

ammonia isn't a param that creeps out of control if we don't do things to prevent it, being post-cycle inherently means ammonia will remain controlled for any bioload you choose. if a given disease killed off fish while you're gone and you come home to high ammonia, that's not a cycle issue that's a disease issue. ammonia rising will never precede a fish kill in a display reef. it'll be hardware issues or disease that get em, but not a cycle issue at week 3

we wont test for nitrite due to reasons Randy has listed in myriad posts and writeups. You have already seen that nitrite presence affects your nitrate test kit accuracy, so wait until roughly day 60 total setup time before reacting to any nitrate. I have never tested for nitrate nor owned the kit and I keep all common corals for decades, it's not a required param to know unless you're determined to know it. get a digital kit if you want to accurately know nitrate.


your cycle is done because you've moved ammonia to zero or close to it twice now...once was enough. if your reef has a stack of rocks that's cooked in bottle bac and feed for 3 weeks, you were done cycling on day ten even though your test kits may not have agreed. digital ammonia testers would have agreed. you're done cycling and into fish disease prevention choices, and chemistry measures for a typical running reef now.

You're done cycling because waiting any longer for parameter changes can't make your tank safer for fish. Only specific disease preps from the disease forum can provide initial fish safety.
Thank you so much for taking the time to help out a newbie with such a lengthy, detailed explanation. Could you kindly direct me to the information you referenced regarding nitrite. I was led to believe that although not nearly as toxic as ammonia it is still harmful.
 

That's us testing his advice for 31 straight pages of nitrite- positive tank starts. Above I'd given your setup 60 days to control nitrite so you could test nitrate roughly accurately, when you switch to a digital nitrate test
A cycling chart shows nitrite compliance across systems by day 25 actually, I went double past the known control date for nitrite simply bc we're in no rush to know your nitrate, I don't ever test for it not ever but for sure your nitrite bacteria will be set by day sixty.

that nitrite was never actually harmful though, we start all systems by day ten of wait time above and that's not nitrite compliance date, day ten is ammonia compliance date off a cycling chart. Ammonia is all that's needed to control, and we have a time scale for it just in case someone's ammonia tester isn't working on a given day. Yours seems to be working. If you add mixed pet store fish, expect disease outbreak in a few mos

If you follow prep rules from Jay's disease forum, your chances of disease wipeout drop substantially.
 
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The most standout aspect of that second link above, the 31 page thread, is that all posters got an exact start date for their reef vs an open- ended, unsure start date. That's very very tight controls across all reefs... cycling science is changing that's for sure. The old rules no longer apply, it's all about fish disease preps we know the ammonia control system is easy to setup. Any arrangement we create is ready by a predetermined date for the arrangement at hand, we show. Ignoring nitrite plays heavily in exact start date cycling science.
 
Any time you are in that cycle window you will get changes which is normal. You might even see small changes once you start to stock up. You just will want to have a eye on everything, Enjoy the journey it will be a blast!
 
I looked at your post history TW

your cycle is done, you're now past cycling, and into reefing choices. this will help you move from one phase of concern into another set :)

-never test for ammonia again on this reef if you want to save yourself false stall headaches. your non-digital test kits are subject to mislead you late in the game if you keep testing for cycle params after a cycle has closed. yours is done.

ammonia isn't a param that creeps out of control if we don't do things to prevent it, being post-cycle inherently means ammonia will remain controlled for any bioload you choose. if a given disease killed off fish while you're gone and you come home to high ammonia, that's not a cycle issue that's a disease issue. ammonia rising will never precede a fish kill in a display reef. it'll be hardware issues or disease that get em, but not a cycle issue at week 3

we wont test for nitrite due to reasons Randy has listed in myriad posts and writeups. You have already seen that nitrite presence affects your nitrate test kit accuracy, so wait until roughly day 60 total setup time before reacting to any nitrate. I have never tested for nitrate nor owned the kit and I keep all common corals for decades, it's not a required param to know unless you're determined to know it. get a digital kit if you want to accurately know nitrate.


your cycle is done because you've moved ammonia to zero or close to it twice now...once was enough. if your reef has a stack of rocks that's cooked in bottle bac and feed for 3 weeks, you were done cycling on day ten even though your test kits may not have agreed. digital ammonia testers would have agreed. you're done cycling and into fish disease prevention choices, and chemistry measures for a typical running reef now.

You're done cycling because waiting any longer for parameter changes can't make your tank safer for fish. Only specific disease preps from the disease forum can provide initial fish safety.
I stopped adding Nitrocycle and decided to give the nitrites a few days bc a read they can go from fairly high to zero very rapidly. Yesterday 5 today zero. WONDERFUL, except my nitrates per Hanna are >75, likely near 100. I tested them at 65 after the first week of cycling and thought it to be false due to ammonia and nitrites interfering. Well, they’re gone and this result appears legitimate. I double checked with the API test kit I have. Is this normal? Do I now do a 100% water change and immediately add fish?
 
You are past cycling, no mention of any ammonia or nitrite or nitrate counter measures changes that. If you do a water change it’s to start clean for less algae fuel, it’s not that dangerous ammonia is in the tank so you can change whatever % you’d like to change for a clean water start and add fish, they’ll live for sure.


even after you add fish, the test kit readings above dont matter. Your cycle isn’t broken even if you keep testing after cycle is done, and the tests disagree. The best thing you can do is don’t test for ammonia or nitrite any longer, and don’t test for nitrate until you get a Hanna digital kit and have the tank running at least sixty days.

before adding fish, apply the disease preps shown in the stickies in the disease forum. If you skip those, you’ll be making a disease post request by January. The tank can carry fish right now though if you choose to add them now. Adding pre quarantined fish would still fit the rules from the disease forum stickies.
 
Testing drinking water or known zero samples specifically doesn’t mean the api tests from the tank are correct. We expect no readings from drinking water and we do expect nitrogenous waste readings in living reef systems. It’s why nearly all running reef tanks show .25 on api ammonia vs zero, it doesn’t mean their cycle stays broken.
 
You are past cycling, no mention of any ammonia or nitrite or nitrate counter measures changes that. If you do a water change it’s to start clean for less algae fuel, it’s not that dangerous ammonia is in the tank so you can change whatever % you’d like to change for a clean water start and add fish, they’ll live for sure.


even after you add fish, the test kit readings above dont matter. Your cycle isn’t broken even if you keep testing after cycle is done, and the tests disagree. The best thing you can do is don’t test for ammonia or nitrite any longer, and don’t test for nitrate until you get a Hanna digital kit and have the tank running at least sixty days.

before adding fish, apply the disease preps shown in the stickies in the disease forum. If you skip those, you’ll be making a disease post request by January. The tank can carry fish right now though if you choose to add them now. Adding pre quarantined fish would still fit the rules from the disease forum stickies.
The >75 nitrate reading IS a Hanna test kit. Just to clarify, you’re good with me doing a close to 100% water change to reduce nitrates and hopefully avoid an immediate algae issue. I’m also assuming my bacteria is in my rocks and Marinepure blocks and will not be harme by the water change.
 
100% agreed. The definition of a completed cycle is that no degree of water changes can unstick the working bacteria. This was the core method Dr. Reef used in his bottle bac thread to chart completion…full water changes then he would re dose ammonia and watch it go away overnite to prove those systems were really cycled


he did this water change so that no floating bacteria in the water could cheat the test, only working surfaces were measured.


you don’t need to reverify ammonia, it’s done. Your setup is much older than the longest taking mix of bacteria he studied. Only your surface area could be limited/ need to see tank/ but nobody’s display reef is ever lacking surface area either way. Quarantine setups are the risk for surface area placement and degree of inclusion.

Fritz for example was able to adhere to surfaces in *48* hours or less, meaning that’s one quick cycling product. Dr. Tims was always adhered by day ten or less, no mixes he checked took longer than ten days to adhere for the working strains. You can do ten water changes back to back and it won’t uncycle your tank, those bac are adhered until you dry, boil freeze or medicate them away.
 

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