Alkalinity issues

Musicrocx09 · Jan 27, 2023

Spicy Reef said:
also, are you adding
sodium bicarbonate (baking soda), or
sodium carbonate (soda ash)?

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jan 28, 2023

Musicrocx09 said:

Be sure you are using a calculator to know that the amount you are dosing is a suitable dose.

What do you believe your current alk is, and what do you want it to be? That will help us set a suitable dose.

Reef Chemistry Calculator

Musicrocx09 · Jan 28, 2023

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Be sure you are using a calculator to know that the amount you are dosing is a suitable dose.

What do you believe your current alk is, and what do you want it to be? That will help us set a suitable dose.

Reef Chemistry Calculator

Oh, I don’t need help on dosing. Thank you though!

Musicrocx09 · Jan 28, 2023

@vetteguy53081 @Spicy Reef @Jekyl @Steve2020 testing a fresh saltwater batch by itself, I get 8 alkalinity and 7.4 ph

DanyL · Jan 28, 2023

I never used reef crystals myself, but from others around here I know it should be around 11 dKH, and the salt itself is often not properly mixed in the bucket (I'm talking about the bucket/box/bag the salt comes in).

So my recommendation for you is to mix it well and make another batch of seawater to test with.
Hopefully we found the culprit.

Musicrocx09 · Jan 28, 2023

DanyL said:
I never used reef crystals myself, but from others around here I know it should be around 11 dKH, and the salt itself is often not properly mixed in the bucket (I'm talking about the bucket/box/bag the salt comes in).

So my recommendation for you is to mix it well and make another batch of seawater to test with.
Hopefully we found the culprit.

Would that also account for the 7.4 ph?
Unfortunately this bucket it almost gone

Jekyl · Jan 28, 2023

DanyL said:
I never used reef crystals myself, but from others around here I know it should be around 11 dKH, and the salt itself is often not properly mixed in the bucket (I'm talking about the bucket/box/bag the salt comes in).

So my recommendation for you is to mix it well and make another batch of seawater to test with.
Hopefully we found the culprit.

This. Either salinity isn't 35ppt or testing is inaccurate. Should mix much closer the what's on the bucket.

DanyL · Jan 28, 2023

Musicrocx09 said:
Would that also account for the 7.4 ph?
Unfortunately this bucket it almost gone

I never tested the PH of fresh saltwater to answer that unfortunately, but I believe so.

Musicrocx09 · Jan 28, 2023

Jekyl said:
This. Either salinity isn't 35ppt or testing is inaccurate. Should mix much closer the what's on the bucket.

Salinity is 1.026 which the bucket says is 35ppt
Tested with two test kits for ph
Even tested the rodi water which was lower then 7.4 so it didn’t show on color coded reference cards

vetteguy53081 · Jan 28, 2023

Musicrocx09 said:
@vetteguy53081 @Spicy Reef @Jekyl @Steve2020 testing a fresh saltwater batch by itself, I get 8 alkalinity and 7.4 ph

Generally speaking, high alk affects the rate at which pH increases, so with the low alk- 7.4 would make sense. Its possible its the salt mix and seeing that its almost all used up, see what the next bucket produces with alk and PH. Often rolling a new bucket of salt will help keep things mixed within the pail.

Musicrocx09 · Jan 28, 2023

vetteguy53081 said:
Generally speaking, high alk affects the rate at which pH increases, so with the low alk- 7.4 would make sense. Its possible its the salt mix and seeing that its almost all used up, see what the next bucket produces with alk and PH. Often rolling a new bucket of salt will help keep things mixed within the pail.

Well I guess some of the comments say that the alk should come out way higher, as far as the ph and the rest of my salt bucket, what can I do to increase my next batches?

vetteguy53081 · Jan 28, 2023

Musicrocx09 said:
Well I guess some of the comments say that the alk should come out way higher, as far as the ph and the rest of my salt bucket, what can I do to increase my next batches?

Consider Red Sea Pro or Tropic Marin which runs higher. Buy a small Box Before you invest in a bucket to assure you get the result you want

DanyL · Jan 28, 2023

You can manually increase alk with Sodium Bicarbonate, and if you also want to get higher PH than Sodium Carbonate will do.

I would also test Ca and Mg to see what's going on with them, they may also be low both in the fresh saltwater and your tank.

Musicrocx09 · Jan 28, 2023

DanyL said:
You can manually increase alk with Sodium Bicarbonate, and if you also want to get higher PH than Sodium Carbonate will do.

I would also test Ca and Mg to see what's going on with them, they may also be low both in the fresh saltwater and your tank.

I actually did just test those a couple days ago. Had just ordered salifert tests for those because I was curious. Surprising the parameters for those were great. Closer to the high end of the range to be honest

DanyL · Jan 28, 2023

Musicrocx09 said:
I actually did just test those a couple days ago. Had just ordered salifert tests for those because I was curious. Surprising the parameters for those were great. Closer to the high end of the range to be honest

Ha interesting.
I'm guessing they'll be high in a fresh saltwater too.

But if that's the case, I wouldn't hesitate to add Soda Ash either by dosing it straight to the tank or mixed within a fresh saltwater batch. Just make sure you go slowly to prevent shocking your corals (0.2-0.3 dKh per day sounds about right).

Musicrocx09 · Jan 28, 2023

DanyL said:
Ha interesting.
I'm guessing they'll be high in a fresh saltwater too.

But if that's the case, I wouldn't hesitate to add Soda Ash either by dosing it straight to the tank or mixed within a fresh saltwater batch. Just make sure you go slowly to prevent shocking your corals (0.2-0.3 dKh per day sounds about right).

I have tried dumping in my sodium bicarbonate solution from brs but it doesn’t seem to affect my ph and dissipates within a day, 2 max

Musicrocx09 · Jan 28, 2023

DanyL said:
Ha interesting.
I'm guessing they'll be high in a fresh saltwater too.

But if that's the case, I wouldn't hesitate to add Soda Ash either by dosing it straight to the tank or mixed within a fresh saltwater batch. Just make sure you go slowly to prevent shocking your corals (0.2-0.3 dKh per day sounds about right).

Wait shouldn’t they be high in fresh saltwater? I thought that’s how calcium etc get replenished

Lionfish hunter · Jan 28, 2023

Instant ocean is much higher than 7-8 dkh. Either your means to measure salinity or alkalinity is wrong.

Musicrocx09 said:
I’m using tropic Marin test kit and I’m not seeing any dkh labeled on my instant ocean reef crystals. Also my nitrates are never above 10

Steve2020 · Jan 28, 2023

vetteguy53081 said:
Consider Red Sea Pro or Tropic Marin which runs higher. Buy a small Box Before you invest in a bucket to assure you get the result you want

You saying Tropic Marin runs higher is not necessarily true unless you specify which Tropic Marin salt to use. Pro Reef has a low dKH and classic Is higher in dKH but has a low Ca content IMO.
The other two are specialty salts that have higher Alk and Ca but also have other compounds that Musicrocx09 may not be interested in.

The Below values are from TM's web page:

Classic: Ca: 370-390 ppm, Mg: 1250-1300 ppm, Alk: 9-10 dKH
Pro-REEF: Ca: 430-450 ppm, Mg: 1300-1350 ppm, Alk: 7-8 dKH
Bio-ACTIF: Ca: 430-450 ppm, Mg: 1300-1350 ppm, Alk: 8-9 dKH, plus carbon dosing compounds.
Syn-Biotic: Ca: 430-450 ppm, Mg: 1300-1350 ppm, Alk: 8-9 dKH, plus carbon dosing compounds, probiotic bacteria & denitrifying bacteria.

vetteguy53081 · Jan 28, 2023

Steve2020 said:
You saying Tropic Marin runs higher is not necessarily true unless you specify which Tropic Marin salt to use. Pro Reef has a low dKH and classic Is higher in dKH but has a low Ca content IMO.
The other two are specialty salts that have higher Alk and Ca but also have other compounds that Musicrocx09 may not be interested in.

The Below values are from TM's web page:

Classic: Ca: 370-390 ppm, Mg: 1250-1300 ppm, Alk: 9-10 dKH

Pro-REEF: Ca: 430-450 ppm, Mg: 1300-1350 ppm, Alk: 7-8 dKH

Bio-ACTIF: Ca: 430-450 ppm, Mg: 1300-1350 ppm, Alk: 8-9 dKH, plus carbon dosing compounds.

Syn-Biotic: Ca: 430-450 ppm, Mg: 1300-1350 ppm, Alk: 8-9 dKH, plus carbon dosing compounds, probiotic bacteria & denitrifying bacteria.

I used TM Pro at 10.2 average and now Actif averaging 9.6. You may be going off bucket values which are at manufacturng plant testing and not accurate with various tanks and types of water. Calcium levels will also change the alk values.
Im going off of long term use.