Alkalinity keeps rising please help!

Nishar · Mar 28, 2018

Nishar said:
Thanks for reply.

I do not have artificial life rock in my tank. I’m using RO (purchase from supermarket) though. In the past I do not have this issue where my KH between 8 and 9. My pH is 8.1 calcium 450, magnesium 1350. Whenever I change water around 20 to 30% KH drop to just 17, where before it was 19 initially. Now it increase to 18

I’m really surprise with this result where chemically it doesn’t makes sense. Where calcium and ph is in acceptable range...now I feel even I change water, it will be waste of my effort

Possible for a dying coral rock leach back carbonate hardness?

Appreciate for any help and suggestion.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Mar 28, 2018

Try measuring the alkalinity of the water you use to replace evaporation.

No, dead corals don't release alkalinity.

Nishar · Mar 29, 2018

I’ve check my top up water, the KH is zero....it does not change from Blue to yellow...but from first drop it has yellow tint color....RO water suppose to be zero right?

I’m also dosing Vodka daily as carbon source..might be a potential?

Randy Holmes-Farley · Mar 29, 2018

That’s what pure fresh water should do.

Vodka dosing alone isn’t an issue, but if nitrate is falling by large amounts, that can. 4.5 dKH added for each 50 ppm drop in nitrate.

Nishar · Mar 29, 2018

I was battling high nitrate before...from 100ppm to current 5ppm...but 100ppm was in Aug last year when I neglected my tank...here I attached my parameter logbook...for analysis...

Now I’m dosing 15ml of vodka on my 50gal tank to keep nitrate in control..

Nishar · Mar 29, 2018

I’m not sure whether my attachment able to open or not

Randy Holmes-Farley · Mar 29, 2018

Not.

Nishar · Mar 29, 2018

Nishar · Mar 29, 2018

Sorry I’m only able to upload image file not the original file...not expert uploading file...please zoom in to read the data...let me know if need more details...example I drop the temperature from 32 to 27 deg C by using chiller...

Randy Holmes-Farley · Mar 29, 2018

What calcium and magnesium products are you adding? Some add alkalinity too.

Can you describe everything else you are adding?

Randy Holmes-Farley · Mar 29, 2018

Tropic Marin biocalcium and biomagnesium add alkalinity, for example.

Nishar · Mar 29, 2018

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
What calcium and magnesium products are you adding? Some add alkalinity too.

Can you describe everything else you are adding?

I’m using Brightwell Aquatics Calcium and Magnesium which come in powder form. I started to add these since Feb this year. The alkalinity was high before I add both, which was not recorded in the logbook.
Besides this, I’m dosing Seachem Stability, Clarity, Bactive 8 and API stress zyme where I intend to populate various good bacteria colony.

For coral Food, I’m dosing Aquavitro Fuel, Aquapharm 5in1 coral food...Brightwell Strontium and sometimes Brightwell Iodine

Nishar · Mar 30, 2018

Finally I found the so source of my high KH. It’s coming from water conditioner I’m using before adding new water into my tank..

The water conditioner marketed as to remove chlorine, chloramine, neutralize ammonia and heavy metal, inhibit nitrite accumulation in fish, .... mentioned for freshwater and saltwater...

I’m not sure whether I’m allowed to share the brand here...because still wondering is my practice of using water conditioner with RO water is wrong or the product itself have issue..

So now I’m going to change water without using this conditioner

Thanks for helping me to think out of the box to look out at source of KH which could come from other dosing product...

Dawsokj1988 · Jul 3, 2018

Jumping on this thread to avoid making a duplicate.

I want to share my current 'phenomenon' which I believe defies the principles of alkalinity. I'm sure you'll figure it out Randy.

Scenario:
Alkalinity is rising by .1 to .2 dkh per day.

Facts:
1) 200 gallon tank which is approx. 9 months old
2) Marco's dry rock with e-marco mortar to help build aquascape. The rock and mortar have been in saltwater for over 13 months.
3) 25 SPS frags and a colony of digitata. Various LPS.
4) Tropic Marine Pro Salt mixed to 1.026 (an assumption that milkwakee refractometer is accurate, but I've tested several times with reference solutions)
5) 6 stage RODI with 0 TDS tested at both the mixing station and the top-off reservoir.
6) Co2 scrubber attached to skimmer air intake. PH between 8.1-8.4 (again, assumption that GHL probe is correct)
7) Chaeto reactor, skimmer, automatic roller mat, GAC, and siporax (sintered glass) are all used.
8) Cupisorb (250 ml) is in a reactor and was added to reduce tin levels. This phenomenon lines up well with the addition of cupisorb (started to notice the increase shortly after adding it).
9) Frag plugs are ceramic
10) water level is always constant via tunze ato.

Assumptions:
1) test kits are accurate. I use the Hanna egg and I've found it to be very consistent when using the same 'batch' of reagent. I've observed a .1 to .2 dkh increase per day for the last 2 weeks. I've also tested a reference solution to confirm no testing error.
2) I'm not adding any solution which is high in alkalinity. I'll list what I add on a daily basis:
a) 30 ML of phyto from algae barn
b) live black worms
c) reef frenzy / fish frenzy / mysis / rotifiers / calanus
d) alternating eco-balance or microb lift 50 ML once a week
e) iron and manganese .5 ml per day for chaeto reactor
f) nitrate and molybdenum 5 ml was dosed once during this period. (I've read about denitrification increasing alkalinity, but this was dosed to keep nitrate stable when conducting w/c)
g) two treatments of panta rhei were conducted to help lower tin levels. No noticeable increase in alkalinity occurred after the dose.
3) nitrate is stable at 3-5 ppm via red sea pro test kit.
4) Magnesium is high at 1550ish (confirmed via 2 ICP from triton and ATI; believe it came from a batch of salt high in mag)
5) Calcium is high at 470ish ("")
6) The tank is running at 1.026 and has been steady at 1.026

Observations:
1) The sps frags and colonies are growing and encrusting.
2) the rock is 'maturing' in what looks to be a healthy way.

Actions:
1) I've been conducting 20 % water changes (40 gallons) to lower the alkalinity levels. I test the fresh salt mix (7.3 DKH) and conduct the water change. Afterwards, I test the display and see a decrease in alkalinity by .2-.3 ish (8.4 to 8.2 or 8.3 to 8.1). I used seachim acid buffer on the last water change to bring the freshly mixed saltwater to 5 DKH. This lowered my DT alkalinity from 8.7 to 8 (which was in line with the calculations prior).
2) I've ordered more coral.

Theories:
1) outer layer of rocks are dissolving and increasing alkalinity
2) cupisorb somehow raises alkalinity slowly (doesn't make any sense)

I've probably missed something, but that's the bulk of it.

dowensi · Jun 7, 2020

Dawsokj1988 said:
Jumping on this thread to avoid making a duplicate.

I want to share my current 'phenomenon' which I believe defies the principles of alkalinity. I'm sure you'll figure it out Randy.

Scenario:
Alkalinity is rising by .1 to .2 dkh per day.

Facts:
1) 200 gallon tank which is approx. 9 months old
2) Marco's dry rock with e-marco mortar to help build aquascape. The rock and mortar have been in saltwater for over 13 months.
3) 25 SPS frags and a colony of digitata. Various LPS.
4) Tropic Marine Pro Salt mixed to 1.026 (an assumption that milkwakee refractometer is accurate, but I've tested several times with reference solutions)
5) 6 stage RODI with 0 TDS tested at both the mixing station and the top-off reservoir.
6) Co2 scrubber attached to skimmer air intake. PH between 8.1-8.4 (again, assumption that GHL probe is correct)
7) Chaeto reactor, skimmer, automatic roller mat, GAC, and siporax (sintered glass) are all used.
8) Cupisorb (250 ml) is in a reactor and was added to reduce tin levels. This phenomenon lines up well with the addition of cupisorb (started to notice the increase shortly after adding it).
9) Frag plugs are ceramic
10) water level is always constant via tunze ato.

Assumptions:
1) test kits are accurate. I use the Hanna egg and I've found it to be very consistent when using the same 'batch' of reagent. I've observed a .1 to .2 dkh increase per day for the last 2 weeks. I've also tested a reference solution to confirm no testing error.
2) I'm not adding any solution which is high in alkalinity. I'll list what I add on a daily basis:
a) 30 ML of phyto from algae barn
b) live black worms
c) reef frenzy / fish frenzy / mysis / rotifiers / calanus
d) alternating eco-balance or microb lift 50 ML once a week
e) iron and manganese .5 ml per day for chaeto reactor
f) nitrate and molybdenum 5 ml was dosed once during this period. (I've read about denitrification increasing alkalinity, but this was dosed to keep nitrate stable when conducting w/c)
g) two treatments of panta rhei were conducted to help lower tin levels. No noticeable increase in alkalinity occurred after the dose.
3) nitrate is stable at 3-5 ppm via red sea pro test kit.
4) Magnesium is high at 1550ish (confirmed via 2 ICP from triton and ATI; believe it came from a batch of salt high in mag)
5) Calcium is high at 470ish ("")
6) The tank is running at 1.026 and has been steady at 1.026

Observations:
1) The sps frags and colonies are growing and encrusting.
2) the rock is 'maturing' in what looks to be a healthy way.

Actions:
1) I've been conducting 20 % water changes (40 gallons) to lower the alkalinity levels. I test the fresh salt mix (7.3 DKH) and conduct the water change. Afterwards, I test the display and see a decrease in alkalinity by .2-.3 ish (8.4 to 8.2 or 8.3 to 8.1). I used seachim acid buffer on the last water change to bring the freshly mixed saltwater to 5 DKH. This lowered my DT alkalinity from 8.7 to 8 (which was in line with the calculations prior).
2) I've ordered more coral.

Theories:
1) outer layer of rocks are dissolving and increasing alkalinity
2) cupisorb somehow raises alkalinity slowly (doesn't make any sense)

I've probably missed something, but that's the bulk of it.

Hello - Did you ever get to the bottom of this? I also have the same issue with Alk rising 0.1-0.2 per Day. It’s not testing error as I’ve used different kits and backed up with 2 ICP tests. I also use tropic Marin Pro Reef Salt and don’t dose anything. I added a new piece of Marco rock recently to the scape but that’s all I’ve done. Thanks in advance

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jun 7, 2020

Are you sure it rises between water changes and isn’t just steady high?

Do you use any chemical additives at all?

dowensi · Jun 16, 2020

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Are you sure it rises between water changes and isn’t just steady high?

Do you use any chemical additives at all?

Hello. My water change water is lower and stable at 8.5. I don’t dose anything at all. I’ve used phosphate rx but now stopped. I’ve also used aminos. But that’s it. It’s stablised now between 11-11.4 but that’s higher than my fresh water so very weird. ATO water is 0 as you’d expect

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jun 16, 2020

dowensi said:
Hello. My water change water is lower and stable at 8.5. I don’t dose anything at all. I’ve used phosphate rx but now stopped. I’ve also used aminos. But that’s it. It’s stablised now between 11-11.4 but that’s higher than my fresh water so very weird. ATO water is 0 as you’d expect

I’m not sure what was boosting it, but some amino acid preparations can raise alkalinity.

rmurken · Jun 16, 2020

Dawsokj1988 said:
Jumping on this thread to avoid making a duplicate.

I want to share my current 'phenomenon' which I believe defies the principles of alkalinity. I'm sure you'll figure it out Randy.

Scenario:
Alkalinity is rising by .1 to .2 dkh per day.

Facts:
1) 200 gallon tank which is approx. 9 months old
2) Marco's dry rock with e-marco mortar to help build aquascape. The rock and mortar have been in saltwater for over 13 months.
3) 25 SPS frags and a colony of digitata. Various LPS.
4) Tropic Marine Pro Salt mixed to 1.026 (an assumption that milkwakee refractometer is accurate, but I've tested several times with reference solutions)
5) 6 stage RODI with 0 TDS tested at both the mixing station and the top-off reservoir.
6) Co2 scrubber attached to skimmer air intake. PH between 8.1-8.4 (again, assumption that GHL probe is correct)
7) Chaeto reactor, skimmer, automatic roller mat, GAC, and siporax (sintered glass) are all used.
8) Cupisorb (250 ml) is in a reactor and was added to reduce tin levels. This phenomenon lines up well with the addition of cupisorb (started to notice the increase shortly after adding it).
9) Frag plugs are ceramic
10) water level is always constant via tunze ato.

Assumptions:
1) test kits are accurate. I use the Hanna egg and I've found it to be very consistent when using the same 'batch' of reagent. I've observed a .1 to .2 dkh increase per day for the last 2 weeks. I've also tested a reference solution to confirm no testing error.
2) I'm not adding any solution which is high in alkalinity. I'll list what I add on a daily basis:
a) 30 ML of phyto from algae barn
b) live black worms
c) reef frenzy / fish frenzy / mysis / rotifiers / calanus
d) alternating eco-balance or microb lift 50 ML once a week
e) iron and manganese .5 ml per day for chaeto reactor
f) nitrate and molybdenum 5 ml was dosed once during this period. (I've read about denitrification increasing alkalinity, but this was dosed to keep nitrate stable when conducting w/c)
g) two treatments of panta rhei were conducted to help lower tin levels. No noticeable increase in alkalinity occurred after the dose.
3) nitrate is stable at 3-5 ppm via red sea pro test kit.
4) Magnesium is high at 1550ish (confirmed via 2 ICP from triton and ATI; believe it came from a batch of salt high in mag)
5) Calcium is high at 470ish ("")
6) The tank is running at 1.026 and has been steady at 1.026

Observations:
1) The sps frags and colonies are growing and encrusting.
2) the rock is 'maturing' in what looks to be a healthy way.

Actions:
1) I've been conducting 20 % water changes (40 gallons) to lower the alkalinity levels. I test the fresh salt mix (7.3 DKH) and conduct the water change. Afterwards, I test the display and see a decrease in alkalinity by .2-.3 ish (8.4 to 8.2 or 8.3 to 8.1). I used seachim acid buffer on the last water change to bring the freshly mixed saltwater to 5 DKH. This lowered my DT alkalinity from 8.7 to 8 (which was in line with the calculations prior).
2) I've ordered more coral.

Theories:
1) outer layer of rocks are dissolving and increasing alkalinity
2) cupisorb somehow raises alkalinity slowly (doesn't make any sense)

I've probably missed something, but that's the bulk of it.

Can’t imagine how your rock would be dissolving at your ph.

Cuprisorb wouldn’t do it, I don’t think? It’s an H+ form cation exchange resin so would give off 2H+ as it adsorbs Cu++, Sn, or whatever. So if anything might be pushing the other way a little bit.

Seachem Acid buffer is what—something like sodium bisulfate? That would lower alk too.

To be honest, my tank has had periods of inexplicably rising Alk. Pattern is it stops falling and so I stop supplementing. It then drifts modestly upward without additions—maybe .5 - 1 dKh over a week? Then it starts to come down again. Happens occasionally, resolves on its own. Possibly correlated to when I mess around with cleaning or rearranging or have my hands in there a lot. But that’s impressionistic and by no means the kind of observation that would even remotely establish cause and effect.