Alkalinity over 16dkh

[GARRIGA]

Wouldn't adding acid not reduce it without the WC and in a controlled fashion meaning one can control the level at which it drops with only negative affect being temporary pH drop until that equalizes with room co2.

That's what I did when my alkalinity shot to 14 due to adding kalk and going off pH hoping more would raise it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Wouldn't adding acid not reduce it without the WC and in a controlled fashion meaning one can control the level at which it drops with only negative affect being temporary pH drop until that equalizes with room co2.

That's what I did when my alkalinity shot to 14 due to adding kalk and going off pH hoping more would raise it.

Yes, and it's an option, but in tank the very low pH that happens is another risk.

Done slowly and carefully with plenty of aeration, it is OK.

Good choices as muriatic acid or sodium bisulfate (not bisulfite).

Sodium Bisulfate to Reduce Alkalinity in New Salt Water or in Display Tanks

I just want to record these calculations in their own thread to refer back to in other threads. When alkalinity is too high in new salt water or in a display tank, acid can be used to lower the alkalinity. You can easily use muriatic acid (hydrochloric acid), or sodium bifulfate (e.g...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[DanyL]

Wouldn't adding acid not reduce it without the WC and in a controlled fashion meaning one can control the level at which it drops with only negative affect being temporary pH drop until that equalizes with room co2.

That's what I did when my alkalinity shot to 14 due to adding kalk and going off pH hoping more would raise it.

As Randy already mentioned, while it would work and lower the Alkalinity, it would also significantly lower the PH.
If it was an overdose of a high PH Alk, than this would be a good solution, although this would've likely to also cause precipitation in the first place, which results in lower alkalinity and calcium.

A better approach to lower alkalinity with acid and without causing a significant drop in PH would be to do it externally - basically taking X amount of tank water into a bucket with good aeration , dosing the acid and giving the ph a few hours to stabilize, the doing a wc with it and going to step 1 with the new waste water.
This would allow one to lower alk to lower than normal levels, which would than make a bigger difference.

@eqbal9947 Are you following your calcium levels?
Usually when something like this happens, calcium consumption can rise and you need to at least maintain it at the same level, or even raise it above normal levels to cause faster alkalinity consumption.
I wouldn't worry much about Mag, the test results would likely be incorrect - I would just keep dosing it in relation to calcium.

 

[GARRIGA]

As Randy already mentioned, while it would work and lower the Alkalinity, it would also significantly lower the PH.
If it was an overdose of a high PH Alk, than this would be a good solution, although this would've likely to also cause precipitation in the first place, which results in lower alkalinity and calcium.

A better approach to lower alkalinity with acid and without causing a significant drop in PH would be to do it externally - basically taking X amount of tank water into a bucket with good aeration , dosing the acid and giving the ph a few hours to stabilize, the doing a wc with it and going to step 1 with the new waste water.
This would allow one to lower alk to lower than normal levels, which would than make a bigger difference.

@eqbal9947 Are you following your calcium levels?
Usually when something like this happens, calcium consumption can rise and you need to at least maintain it at the same level, or even raise it above normal levels to cause faster alkalinity consumption.
I wouldn't worry much about Mag, the test results would likely be incorrect - I would just keep dosing it in relation to calcium.

I stated the pH affect.

 

[Dburr1014]

So what is the issue with Neptune and how is it causing tanks to crash? Just wondering if I should be worrying since I rely heavily on Neptune equipment, especially when I travel, and I will be travelling several times in the next month.

Thread 'WARNING: Avoid latest AOS updates!' https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/warning-avoid-latest-aos-updates.1057383/

 

[GARRIGA]

Yes, and it's an option, but in tank the very low pH that happens is another risk.

Done slowly and carefully with plenty of aeration, it is OK.

Good choices as muriatic acid or sodium bisulfate (not bisulfite).

Sodium Bisulfate to Reduce Alkalinity in New Salt Water or in Display Tanks

I just want to record these calculations in their own thread to refer back to in other threads. When alkalinity is too high in new salt water or in a display tank, acid can be used to lower the alkalinity. You can easily use muriatic acid (hydrochloric acid), or sodium bifulfate (e.g...

www.reef2reef.com

Having probably the worse house co2 imaginable what I found was that breaking the dosage over two to four increments allowed my tank pH to rise back to equilibrium rather quickly yet didn’t see it drop much per dose.

The other concern with a WC being that alkalinity will drop quickly and likely more of a shock then the slight pH drop and equilibrium per dose.

I doubled the dosage per day as one dose just to see the affect and pH did drop but not as much as expected then equalized rather quickly. pH dropped 0.2 then shortly thereafter equalized to norm.

Used Seachem Buffer as I already had it. Claims to not be phosphate based and perhaps you know what the main ingredient is. Have 1.2 kg therefore not likely running out in my lifetime.

 

[rtparty]

I will still argue that alkalinty spikes don't kill tanks. I have watched it happen dozens of times. Likely hundreds of times in the last 19 years. I can't think of one where massive death occured from the alk spike. It is usually a high pH alkalinity supplement used that spikes the pH super high and that causes the issue, not the alkalinity.

You will do far more damage freaking out, doing massive water changes, and really changing up the chemistry. Just do 10% weekly water changes and let it come down naturally.

 

[Mickey]

@eqbal9947 - Gee. Sorry for your issues. I hope you're working with Neptune support. I've seen a couple other threads saying the latest update caused problems.

For what it's worth, I'm a Neptune user since the old AquaController II days. My Trident is at least 4 years old and hasn't had any problems. Last year I did the maintenance kit as a just in case. But then again, I haven't done the firmware update yet.

 

[hunterallen40]

I talked to their “support” team and they said they’re taking a further look into it and that it’s been happening to quite a few people.
Nice of Neptune to crash tanks then do their homework

Hey, we hit a very similar issue... Trying to draw some parallels. @eqbal9947 is yours connected to the dose via 1link, or do you use a USB + DC adapter?

Also, in my case, I plugged it in, noticed I was out of date, then updated. Do you happen to remember if you updated before plugging it in?

 

[Joe Carioti]

Hey guys, my FKN Neptune glitched and now my alk went from 8.5 to over 16.5 in a 2 day span.

Can you share more information with me so I can include it in our (Neptune's) investigation as to what's causing these overdoses?

I'm trying to figure out the following details:

Which AOS version?
Which DOS model (first gen or Quiet Drive)?
Do you have a Neptune support ticket?
Can you add me as an authorized manager of your APEX (my username is JoeC)?

 

[Rjramos]

Chiming in. Just had this happen the other day with Neptune. I flipped the switch on the fusion from off to on on DOS, ALK and Ca. Instead of dosing 10mL in 24 hrs as set, it dosed 200mL of each ESV 2 part, right away. I noticed the spike in pH to 4.6, and immediately turned off DOS till I can figure out what’s going on.

 

[hunterallen40]

Chiming in. Just had this happen the other day with Neptune. I flipped the switch on the fusion from off to on on DOS, ALK and Ca. Instead of dosing 10mL in 24 hrs, it dosed 200mL of each right away.

Hey! I don't think this is the same issue. When you set the doser to "ON", that will start dosing (manual dose), and when you set it to "AUTO" (middle position) it should follow the schedule you set.

If, however, you see it dosing continuously without first setting your doser to "ON", definitely let us know... The more we see this issue, the more information we can share with Neptune, and the faster Neptune can fix this. Hope that helps you!