Alkalinity Stability

[Maho.B]

HI all, fairly new here. Reef tank is 10 months old and I am having issues with some sps corals, specifically acropora, anacropora and millipora. Basically each time I add one of the mentioned coral frags (beautiful and healthy from a LFS) the tips and sometimes portion of the base die back within a week of adding them. Then a brown algae starts growing on the exposed tips. I am going with so called "easier" sps too. I am wondering if it is alkalinity, I read and read how important stability is and I guess I'm looking for advice, even though it will vary from tank to tank, regarding what is or isn't "stable". I use an EcoTech Versa pump to dose my alkalinity, and manually dose calcium and magnesium based on testing twice a week and adjusting as needed which is usually very small amounts. I wanted to see what the alk was throughout a 24 hr period to see if there are large swings. The last 24 hours looked like this:

4:00 pm: 9.1
11:00 pm: 9.5
7:00 am: 9.4
1:00 pm: 9.3

Tests were done using Hanna, the versa doses from 5:00 pm till midnight. Is this to much of a swing for some sps coral? The other corals are doing quite well and include:

- Different trps of cyphastrea
- Acans
- Various Favia
- Montipora (plating and branching)
- Various zoas
- Hammer
- Pectinia
- Mushrooms
- Leather cabbage
- Alveopora

I know there are MANY factors to keeping sps successfully, I guess I will start with ruling out if the alk is okay or not first then move to other potential issues. Thanks!

 

[Matt Bravo]

Honestly, your alk is pretty stable. Ime, frags are pretty sensitive to salinity swings as well. How have you been dealing with evaporation?

 

[Maho.B]

Honestly, your alk is pretty stable. Ime, frags are pretty sensitive to salinity swings as well. How have you been dealing with evaporation?

I use a Tunze ATO system and have been since I set the tank up. I have the sensor set up in the sump and a physical line marked on the glass, it works very well and there is virtually no swing whatsoever in salinity. If the alk seems good. I guess my next move is nutrients? Since algae moves in so quickly once tissue dies off, maybe that's something I should look in to. I guess I thought if it was a nutrient issue it wouldn't be so fast to happen like tips dying back within the first 5 or 6 days of putting it in the tank. Thank you for your reply.

 

[Matt Bravo]

I use a Tunze ATO system and have been since I set the tank up. I have the sensor set up in the sump and a physical line marked on the glass, it works very well and there is virtually no swing whatsoever in salinity. If the alk seems good. I guess my next move is nutrients? Since algae moves in so quickly once tissue dies off, maybe that's something I should look in to. I guess I thought if it was a nutrient issue it wouldn't be so fast to happen like tips dying back within the first 5 or 6 days of putting it in the tank. Thank you for your reply.

That could definitely be a possibility, I do realize that my frags take a hit anytime phos is high. Good luck!

 

[Loosechangereef]

My experience with sps , in my 2 tanks they like old maintained tanks 1.5 years out with live rock and in my case lower alk around 7.
But good luck eventually they will thrive

 

[VintageReefer]

I feel your alk is fine it’s normal to fluctuate a little bit like that. I would look elsewhere

I’d start with adding amino acids (if you aren’t already ) and checking phosphate, calcium, and nitrates. As for equipment lighting and water flow are also important - too much or too little can affect sps

 

[Loosechangereef]

If it was me i would not add anything, but just do w\c and like everyone mentioned keep alk stable,also put more fish and feed
Note : I assume you are using ro\di

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

Mushrooms and acro's are on the extreme opposite ends of the easy/difficulty spectrum. They also have very different requirements in regards to lighting, flow, and nutrient levels. Mushrooms and zoa's don't do well in my main tank which is full of acro's

 

[Loosechangereef]

Mushrooms and acro's are on the extreme opposite ends of the easy/difficulty spectrum. They also have very different requirements in regards to lighting, flow, and nutrient levels. Mushrooms and zoa's don't do well in my main tank which is full of acro's

So basically sps like there own environement,
mixed reefs with some acans , chalices muschrooms etc etc, and 75% sps are doable

 

[Loosechangereef]

So basically sps like there own environement,
mixed reefs with some acans , chalices muschrooms etc etc, and 75% sps are doable

Also he mentioned he has a leather in the tank, do they give off toxins, if so is carbon being used

 

[VintageReefer]

Mixed reef is the hardest to do, especially in smaller tanks. You need to have sections for everything possible. Water has to be in a narrow realm of acceptance for both types of coral. Your constantly on a fine line. That said, of course it can be done. I found there were some things I just absolutely couldn’t keep despite good stability, automated dosing, and high end lighting. Plate coral wouldn’t last. Acans never did well for me in this setup. But mushrooms, leather, zoa, torch, sympodium all did great, as did most sps I tried. I did not attempt the more sensitive/challenging deep water acros.

 

[Loosechangereef]

Mixed reef is the hardest to do, especially in smaller tanks. You need to have sections for everything possible. Water has to be in a narrow realm of acceptance for both types of coral. Your constantly on a fine line. That said, of course it can be done. I found there were some things I just absolutely couldn’t keep despite good stability, automated dosing, and high end lighting. Plate coral wouldn’t last. Acans never did well for me in this setup. But mushrooms, leather, zoa, torch, sympodium all did great, as did most sps I tried. I did not attempt the more sensitive/challenging deep water acros.

Well said and beautiful tank, but if it was me if I put in a high end acro and sensitive i coudnt take the chance and lose the $

 

[VintageReefer]

Well said and beautiful tank, but if it was me if I put in a high end acro and sensitive i coudnt take the chance and lose the $

Take what chance?

FYI these are old photos. This was my tank around 12 years ago. It was a 716w fixture…2x250w metal halide + 4 t5’s. My biggest issue was bleaching new corals due to the lighting which was not dimmable or adjustable. I can’t even imagine what my par was on the sand. Probably 400. I had to use 10 layers of window screen on the lid and remove a layer every few days. I jumped on leds as soon as decent units came out and have been happy since

 

[VintageReefer]

Design / run the tank for sps and keep zoa and mushrooms and leather down low. You can move certain things higher if you do it slowly. I was growing zoa at the top of my rockwork under that light. And acros on the sand. Things can adjust you just have to do it slow

 

[Loosechangereef]

Take what chance?

FYI these are old photos. This was my tank around 12 years ago. It was a 716w fixture…2x250w metal halide + 4 t5’s. My biggest issue was bleaching new corals due to the lighting which was not dimmable or adjustable. I can’t even imagine what my par was on the sand. Probably 400. I had to use 10 layers of window screen on the lid and remove a layer every few days. I jumped on leds as soon as decent units came out and have been happy since

In your case , no chance your tank is well seasoned,
But for the person starting this thread i would start with hardy sps

 

[Loosechangereef]

Take what chance?

FYI these are old photos. This was my tank around 12 years ago. It was a 716w fixture…2x250w metal halide + 4 t5’s. My biggest issue was bleaching new corals due to the lighting which was not dimmable or adjustable. I can’t even imagine what my par was on the sand. Probably 400. I had to use 10 layers of window screen on the lid and remove a layer every few days. I jumped on leds as soon as decent units came out and have been happy since

i had tanks with coralife and vho 175 watt halides never bleached, but when i went to 400 watter bleached

 

[VintageReefer]

In your case , no chance your tank is well seasoned,
But for the person starting this thread i would start with hardy sps

Tank didn’t start well seasoned it was new and went through all the phases as anyone else

October 2012 - this was a few months after I bought the tank and sand and everything. Look at the glass - no coraline. The sand is bleach white. This is a new non seasoned tank in its first few months. I used ocean live rock that was shipped to me. I kept fish, easy corals, and a failed attempt at a birdsnest

June 2013 -
By this point I was growing sps successfully and rearranging but the tank still was going through ugly phases and I was working on nutrient control and stability. I used dosing pumps and that really helped things take off

July 2013 - this is where the tank really became dialed in - right around the 1 year mark

 

[Loosechangereef]

Tank didn’t start well seasoned it was new and went through all the phases as anyone else

October 2012 - this was a few months after I bought the tank and sand and everything. Look at the glass - no coraline. The sand is bleach white. This is a new non seasoned tank in its first few months. I used ocean live rock that was shipped to me. I kept fish, easy corals, and a failed attempt at a birdsnest

June 2013 -
By this point I was growing sps successfully and rearranging but the tank still was going through ugly phases and I was working on nutrient control and stability. I used dosing pumps and that really helped things take off

July 2013 - this is where the tank really became dialed in - right around the 1 year mark

Nice Coralline is key

 

[Maho.B]

Nice Coralline is key

Thanks for all the great feedback! I know mixed reefs are far more challenging, I'm hoping proper placement (like my cyphastria and mushrooms are under rock overhangs doing great) for each coral will work, basically looking for some sps along the top of the rock structure, lower light/flow in the books and crannies.

Loosechangereef, when you mentioned older tanks with live rock, are you referring to actual live rock purchased live, or dry rock well "seasoned"?

Can anyone give feedback on what the threshold is for too low of nutrients in contrast to the alkalinity? As mentioned my alkalinity stays in that mid 9 range, however my phosphate is consistently between .02 to .04 and nitrate is typically around 1.2 to 1.8 but I can only get it there with small daily doses of NeoNitrogen. Are these two nutrients okay with alk in the mid 9 range?

As to the leather cabbage question, I do not run carbon. I have a small reactor and rox carbon but it's not running due to all of the various options I honestly haven't decided if it's good to run or not.

My tank is 110 gallon with 2 red Sea Led 90"s over it. When I rented a par meter it's strongest along the top of the rock struggle is in the high 300's and the low to mid 100's at the sand. When I have tried the acros, anacro, and the milli, I put them into the 300 range par area right away. My LFS said that was fine since they were como from their frag tank with high light. I read about acclimation corals but I assumed that's when they are ordered online and have sat dark in shipping? Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks!

 

[Loosechangereef]

It’s hard to get live rock these days, but austalian is expensive but looks like Marshall island. Rock from the 90s.

I heard there is a place in Hawaii you can purchased seeds bacteria for live sand if you seed your sand, if. You use dead rock