Alkatronic or Neptune Apex

[mitch91175]

Thought we would maybe has some objective discussion and no body get their feelings hurt about anything. We are all adults so please let's keep it civil.

I am looking for something for my frag tank and am at a cross-roads now. I'll be honest, I am a gadget freak and when a new gadget comes out that really interest me, I cannot stop until I come to a conclusion on what to do.

I already have an Alkatronic so +1 for it (known entity). On the other hand, I do not have a CaRx on my frag tank so will need to dose 2 part or kalk. Not a lot of usage at the moment, but preparing for adding SPS to the frag tank.

I also already have an Apex on my frag tank that'll support a Trident.

So now looking at the cost (which isn't everything, but still a consideration).

If I buy the Alkatronic that's $999.
If I buy the Trident/DOS that's $899.
If I buy the Alkatronic/Dosetronic that $1699.98.
If I buy the Trident with 3 DOS that's $1499.80.

I have estimated my Alkatronic monthly reagent cost to be $7.85/month. That's 14 months for a 4L concentrated container.

The maintenance for sending in the Trident doesn't really concern me as much as what is going to work for my situation. I tend to remove all the noise and try to make an educated decision.

This is a quick spreadsheet I put together to illustrate overall cost for both the Alkatronic and Trident to the best of my ability.

NOTE: The maintenance cost really is for the 2nd year on the Trident.

So really cost is and will not be the deciding factor for my frag tank. It will come down to availability and what I see others discussing about the Trident.

 

[ikiwi]

So I am having my own mental debate, whether to start with a Ca Reactor, which is (now) likely not to be any or much more expensive initially than the new dosing and automated testing gadget(s) OR go to dosing (with automated testing be it Alkatronic or Trident) knowing that in the future I will likely need to install a Ca Reactor to keep up with demand (if I should be so lucky). ??

An additional twist to a very useful and thought provoking discussion. Thank you for prompting it Mitch91175.

 

[mitch91175]

Here is a spreadsheet if I purchase 1 DOS & I also included the Apex cost just to be fair:

 

[mitch91175]

So I am having my own mental debate, whether to start with a Ca Reactor, which is (now) likely not to be any or much more expensive initially than the new dosing and automated testing gadget(s) OR go to dosing (with automated testing be it Alkatronic or Trident) knowing that in the future I will likely need to install a Ca Reactor to keep up with demand (if I should be so lucky). ??

An additional twist to a very useful and thought provoking discussion. Thank you for prompting it Mitch91175.

That is the exact reason why I bought this up. For me it isn't just about cost, but I am considering cost just as much as what I ultimately want to do with the frag tank and what I feel the products will accomplish. My frag tank for me is really a second system.

If I were you and usage isn't high, I'd start out with kalk (maybe even a stirrer) and some monitoring/control unit that you feel fits your situation. To me if you are going to eventually have a CaRx running the system, you would have already gotten used to using kalk because it will likely still be used when you run your CaRx. Help with pH and with being able to control it all, you really have no real worries.

I have found that I don't need to test calcium and magnesium using my CaRx / Kalk setup with the Alkatronic on my main display tank. Everything works great so not messing with it much.

 

[hart24601]

I think the trident is very cool and am happy it's out. That being said I like my alkatronic and I prefer it's method using a pH probe over the trident's colorimetric approach, as I feel the pH probe is more accurate as I can calibrate whenever I want easily, but I doubt it really matters too much. I do think one needs to consider the price of multiple DOS too like your 1st post. Honestly if I used an apex on this system I would prolly go with trident, but I would really only use the apex as a fancy timer and if I ever go to a CaRx I like the alkatronic more.

 

[road_runner]

I think kh guardian is still the best option from cost stand point.
At 500$ you get the test and dose ability, its stand alone and it's very quiet..

 

[leepink23]

I think kh guardian is still the best option from cost stand point.
At 500$ you get the test and dose ability, its stand alone and it's very quiet..

If I can piggy back on this thread I would like to hear about the 4 big ones, I was about to create a thread when I saw this. If you prefer I can start a separate thread. KH Director vs trident vs Alkatronic vs kh guardian! I want a trident but the set schedule bothers me and I am a light sleeper.

 

[road_runner]

If I can piggy back on this thread I would like to hear about the 4 big ones, I was about to create a thread when I saw this. If you prefer I can start a separate thread. KH Director vs trident vs Alkatronic vs kh guardian! I want a trident but the set schedule bothers me and I am a light sleeper.

I think it's worth a thread. I see usually the comparison between trident and alktronic while to me kh guardia hold advantage over both with similar functionalities...

 

[mitch91175]

I think the trident is very cool and am happy it's out. That being said I like my alkatronic and I prefer it's method using a pH probe over the trident's colorimetric approach, as I feel the pH probe is more accurate as I can calibrate whenever I want easily, but I doubt it really matters too much. I do think one needs to consider the price of multiple DOS too like your 1st post. Honestly if I used an apex on this system I would prolly go with trident, but I would really only use the apex as a fancy timer and if I ever go to a CaRx I like the alkatronic more.

Since I use a CaRx what you mentioned is exactly why I did choose the Alkatronic out of the lot that was available at that time.

I am personally holding out for some for NO3/PO4 at this point. Would have bought a Trident if it were readily available but it’s not so that gives tike for others to get to market.

 

[mitch91175]

I think kh guardian is still the best option from cost stand point.
At 500$ you get the test and dose ability, its stand alone and it's very quiet..

If my memory serves me well, the KH Guardian doesn't have a means to track your measurements correct?

 

[road_runner]

.

 

[authentic]

Also deciding,,could someone elaborate on the alkatronic with calrx and kalk setup

 

[Water Dog]

Also deciding,,could someone elaborate on the alkatronic with calrx and kalk setup

Here... @mitch91175 has a whole thread dedicated to his CaRx set and the Alkatronic.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/geo-818-smc415-calcium-reactor-setup-for-my-240-reef.463228/

 

[shred5]

Personally none of them. I think wait a little and see if the Abex Xepta is on track for summer release..
This will do more than all of them.

 

[ca1ore]

The one thing it seems people rarely take into account is the viability of the company from whom you are buying this stuff. I always worry, in a niche hobby like this, that manufacturers are fly-by-night operations and can disappear without a trace …. and leave you without support in the event something goes amiss. I would feel comfortable buying from either Neptune (favored if you live in NA) or GHL (favored if you live in Europe), but probably not from the others - not that the big-2 cannot go out of business, of course, it just seems less likely in the short-term. In my case, Trident was the obvious choice because I already have a sizable sunk cost in the apex; if you don't, then the choice IS probably less clear.

I also remain unconvinced that there is incremental value in using these automated testing devices to actually control a CaRx. I've noted this elsewhere, but for those of us who have been running calcium reactors for decades (and there are a few) most have converged around the 'run it continuously' approach - figure out the constant CO2/effluent rate that maintains levels for your tank rather than oscillating around a pH range. Attempting to control the CaRx just seems to me like a step backwards. After about a week of Trident tests, my alkalinity is nominally 8.9 after the light period (6 pm), 9.1 after the dark period (6 am). I do have a very large CaRx, which I imagine helps with stability, but even smaller ones can be set continuously - you just have to be a little more diligent in eyeballing media volume.

If nothing else, Trident has shown me that my hanna alkalinity checker was way out of calibration (ooops).

 

[mitch91175]

The one thing it seems people never take into account is the viability of the company from whom you are buying this stuff. I always worry, in a niche hobby like this, that manufacturers are fly-by-night operations and can disappear without a trace …. and leave you without support in the event something goes amiss. I would feel comfortable buying from either Neptune (favored if you live in NA) or GHL (favored if you live in Europe), but probably not from the others - not that the big-2 cannot go out of business, of course, it just seems less likely in the short-term. In my case, Trident was the obvious choice because I already have a sizable sunk cost in the apex; if you don't, then the choice IS probably less clear.

I also remain unconvinced that there is incremental value in using these automated testing devices to actually control a CaRx. I've noted this elsewhere, but for those of us who have been running calcium reactors for decades (and there are a few) most have converged around the 'run it continuously' approach - figure out the constant CO2/effluent rate that maintains levels for your tank rather than oscillating around a pH range. Attempting to control the CaRx just seems to me like a step backwards. After about a week of Trident tests, my alkalinity is nominally 8.9 after the light period (6 pm), 9.1 after the dark period (6 am). I do have a very large CaRx, which I imagine helps with stability, but even smaller ones can be set continuously - you just have to be a little more diligent in eyeballing media volume.

If nothing else, Trident has shown me that my hanna alkalinity checker was way out of calibration (ooops).

Yes the viability of the company is definitely important when making a decision. I do have a feeling that Focustronic may be around for a little while (hopefully). I can see them likely working on an Ionic based tester like others have currently coming to market.

As far as with my CaRx and kalk stirrer, I am working on a good balance between the 2. To get mine to where my dKH isn't increasing over my range I am having to adjust my pH in my CaRx at the moment. I am sure that there will come a time where that won't be necessary though. I think that you still have to be aware of what is going on with at least your dKH consumption so you know whether you have your CaRx tuned for your tank.

I do think that some may feel that they can look at someone else's setup and mirror their settings, but with a CaRx that doesn't apply really. Heck with a lot of stuff it doesn't apply across all tanks in the hobby. So many variables that make it different. What I am attempting to do by adjusting my pH in the CaRx based upon time-of-day is to keep the dKH in my range. I am finding that what I am doing is working for me, but that doesn't mean that it'll work for someone else. You just have to be in-tune with your tank really. A good way to help is to have some type of testing like the Alkatronic, Trident, KH Director/Guardian, etc.

Plus, I see my tank all day every day which provides me the luxury to mess around with things and not have it be detrimental to my system (at least I think, )

 

[CDavmd]

If nothing else, Trident has shown me that my hanna alkalinity checker was way out of calibration (ooops).

+1

....mine significantly underestimated.