All 4 Reef

nashvillian · Mar 7, 2022

Started dosing A4R over the weekend and all has jumped from 8.9 to 10.6 over a few days. I mixed by weight according to the instructions. My salt is normally Red Sea CP,

does anyone know a way to measure the potency of the solution? Is there a specific metric I can measure the A4R by? Assuming not alkalinity. Thx.

GARRIGA · Mar 7, 2022

I’m going to dose based on calcium needs and add additional alkalinity if needed. I think one still needs to test as every system is different VW following manufacturer dosing recommendations.

Spare time · Mar 7, 2022

Tropic Marin has a calculator on their website page for all for reef that, with a little math, will tell you the KH and calcium increase per x amount of mL in your tank. I dose according to alk as I can see the change the next day when I test. If I dose 60ml and it went down, I raise it to 70ml. If the alk went up, then I'll do 65ml, and so on until it is stable every day

Jekyl · Mar 7, 2022

When dosing anything remember to account for displacement of rocks and substrate. For example a 100g system may only have 80g of water.

nashvillian · Mar 7, 2022

I guess what I’m asking is there any way to directly measure the potency of the A4R solution without the display tank chemistry

Spare time · Mar 7, 2022

nashvillian said:
I guess what I’m asking is there any way to directly measure the potency of the A4R solution without the display tank chemistry

Ah so are you asking how much KH and Calcium there is within x mL of all for reef?

Randy Holmes-Farley · Mar 7, 2022

Why not just dose less and not suspect potency issues?

How did you determine a dose?

nashvillian · Mar 7, 2022

The direction say to mix 6 level spoons or approximately 160g. I weighed out 320g and mixed with 2000ml. I am dosing the suggested starting amount of 5ml per 25g in a 65g with 20gal sump (10 gal water). I’m not accounting for the rocks but if imagine that’s a 4-5 gallon at a very high estimate.
I stopped dosing entirely, but I’m wondering if the solution is saturated correctly. There’s a bit of precip at the bottom but not much. I’d like to know if I’m dosing a oversaturated solution.
Im moving from using an AWC running daily to reduce salt costs

HomebroodExotics · Mar 7, 2022

You’re supposed to dose whatever amount gives you the alk you want to reach.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Mar 7, 2022

Yes, just decrease the dose until alk stabilizes.

nashvillian · Mar 7, 2022

So, maybe I’m not wording this correctly.
I am using A4R powder, mixed to the weight/volume ratio stated in the instructions. How would I confer that this is the same saturation as the prepackaged liquid? I’m dosing the recommended starting point of 5ml per 25 gal daily, but this is causing a pretty high spike in dKH. My normal daily consumption is .2 dKH, no while it’s not much, it’s also something. Over 4 days, dKH has risen from 8.9 to 10.6, leading me to believe that the mixture is oversaturated. Going to wait a couple days, monitor alk consumption, and readjust starting with 5ml a day I guess. Would like to know if it’s from the solution or overdosing though

Shirak · Mar 7, 2022

nashvillian said:
So, maybe I’m not wording this correctly.
I am using A4R powder, mixed to the weight/volume ratio stated in the instructions. How would I confer that this is the same saturation as the prepackaged liquid? I’m dosing the recommended starting point of 5ml per 25 gal daily, but this is causing a pretty high spike in dKH. My normal daily consumption is .2 dKH, no while it’s not much, it’s also something. Over 4 days, dKH has risen from 8.9 to 10.6, leading me to believe that the mixture is oversaturated. Going to wait a couple days, monitor alk consumption, and readjust starting with 5ml a day I guess. Would like to know if it’s from the solution or overdosing though

If you measured everything correctly the concentration in the premixed, DIY, and powdered AFR is all the same.

Have you used the premixed AFR previously?

Waynerock · Mar 7, 2022

I go by the label to mix, 1000ml and 160 grams of powder. It took me a good month to get dialed in definitely tricky. I started dosing 15 ml and kept testing and adjusting. It’s tricky because a dose could take 24-48 hours to show. I have been using for 2 years now and I dose 28ml a day to keep alk at 8.9, cal at 450 and mG at 1440-1480 on 65 gallon. I dose TM mag once and a while to keep it up. Once you get it dialed in it’s hands off but yea total pain to get there. Start on the lower end and work up. Make sure you got plea to to Hanna alk reagent and test every day (same time of day)

GARRIGA · Mar 8, 2022

One wouldn’t dose alkalinity and calcium without knowing their current parameters and goal therefore why would that be done with AFR? It’s nothing different than a two part with magnesium and trace added. Latter two mixed based on calcium and why Lou suggest not adding more magnesium if one requires additional alkalinity or calcium because either consumed faster than mix provides.

As for mixing vs liquid. Just test both to see if one is getting the same parameters per volume. Adjust adding more powder or RODI as needed. No different than mixing salt seeking 35 ppt.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Mar 8, 2022

nashvillian said:
So, maybe I’m not wording this correctly.
I am using A4R powder, mixed to the weight/volume ratio stated in the instructions. How would I confer that this is the same saturation as the prepackaged liquid? I’m dosing the recommended starting point of 5ml per 25 gal daily, but this is causing a pretty high spike in dKH. My normal daily consumption is .2 dKH, no while it’s not much, it’s also something. Over 4 days, dKH has risen from 8.9 to 10.6, leading me to believe that the mixture is oversaturated. Going to wait a couple days, monitor alk consumption, and readjust starting with 5ml a day I guess. Would like to know if it’s from the solution or overdosing though

It makes no difference what the potency is. You are adding too much and should dose a LOT less. Directions for any alk additive that are mL per gallon are ONLY starting doses. All dosing of this type needs to be adjusted to meet the needs of the tank.

Spare time · Mar 8, 2022

nashvillian said:
So, maybe I’m not wording this correctly.
I am using A4R powder, mixed to the weight/volume ratio stated in the instructions. How would I confer that this is the same saturation as the prepackaged liquid? I’m dosing the recommended starting point of 5ml per 25 gal daily, but this is causing a pretty high spike in dKH. My normal daily consumption is .2 dKH, no while it’s not much, it’s also something. Over 4 days, dKH has risen from 8.9 to 10.6, leading me to believe that the mixture is oversaturated. Going to wait a couple days, monitor alk consumption, and readjust starting with 5ml a day I guess. Would like to know if it’s from the solution or overdosing though

The instructions on the powder mix it to the same concentration as the premade liquid version if you followed the instructions. If you maybe added too much powder and you want to check, you would need to dose your mix and a pre-made liquid form into two separate containers of water and compare the amount being dosed to how much the alk and calcium rises.

nashvillian · Mar 8, 2022

Yeah I was just wondering if anyone had an easy way to do this without using the display as a catalyst. It also very well may be that my stupid Timemore espresso scale is way off.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Mar 9, 2022

nashvillian said:
Yeah I was just wondering if anyone had an easy way to do this without using the display as a catalyst. It also very well may be that my stupid Timemore espresso scale is way off.

Easy way to do what?

If you know the exact daily demand, you can come up with a better starting dose, but trial and error is always needed to home in on the exact dosing needed for any method.

dohc97 · Mar 9, 2022

Seems simple to me, reduce dosing until you have a stable reading at your target. Tropic Marin doesn't know your rate of consumption, that is what you have to find out.