All Acroporas gone - Suddenly

[Rakie]

Hmm. That's interesting. I did notice that before adding the Prime, only two corals looked to be in trouble. After adding Prime, the next day, most looked to be in trouble.

My WD was the brightest looking frag in the tank. That next day, it was stn badly.

Maybe the Prime is the culprit? This seemed to have been an event rather than a slow trend.

What IS Prime?

Honestly like I said, that's exactly what happened to me but I've seen very few other people with that problem.. I've still used prime very lightly on occasion and every time I get some instant stress and STN from some corals. It hasn't killed anything yet, but that's because I had been very cautious after noticing the affects and use it in emergency only, followed by very wet skimming and Carbon.

Prime binds metals, which is cool, but it also binds -- no2/no3/po4/ammonia, and other nondescript things in our water.

If you're familiar with biggles, he dosed some lanthium chloride and almost nuked his tank overnight, due to a 100% reduction in po4 (we believe).

So pulling out large amounts of the food source immediately can have instant negative effects.

 

[markalot]

I don't think it was Prime unless you radically overdosed it. That Alk swing with very low PO4 was enough. Ever since I went through almost 2 years of failure I have been hard core adamant about never letting my KH get much above 7, and even suffering a few drops to 5.6 KH as tank growth accelerated. Alk swings above 8 can nuke a tank very quickly, especially if PO4 is low. IMO. I can't explain my continued success other than being militant about Alk.

 

[C.bldwn]

I would stop dosing phosphates, there are many forms of phosphates and test usually only detect specific forms. I had tried raising my nitrate to trace amounts before and had the same thing happen, SPS started STN overnight and turned to RTN the following day. Just because your test kit says you don’t have nitrates of phosphates doesn’t mean you don’t have any, it just means the algae is consuming it as fast as it’s added. I’ve learned to cut back on the filtrating and feed more balanced food with a more consistent schedule (autofeeder). As far as Alk goes I doubt it would be the cause, it defiantly will stress the SPS but shouldn’t kill them that quick with the exception of the most sensitive. I’ve kept SPS for years and have dosed daily and also gotten lazy where I would only test and dose once every few weeks and I would raise everything to where I wanted to keep in 1 shot, I would wait 20 min between dosing alk and calcium so they didn’t interact. Never lost any corals from shock either. I am currently back to manually dosing once a week as my carbonic doser has been sent in for repairs so my calcium reactor is down.

So, I have watched all but one acropora frag stn before a final rtn overnight. My montis and zoas are all fine. One PC Rainbow frag looks to be unaffected.

Here is what has recently changed:
1-Added an aquaclear filter for running carbon and added filtration.
2-Dosing phosphates, daily, trusting my Hanna phosphate meters zero reading to be accurate.
3-Raised alkalinity about 0.7dkh in one days time. Went from around 8 to 9.
4-Had my rbta stuck to mp10 foam guard for a day. No death, just upset looking.
5-Added some Prime when I thought the rbta was dead.
6-Let my dkh drop from 9-7.3 over several days time. (About 0.3dkh each day)
7-Recently cleaned my tank heater using vinegar and baking soda. Rodi was used to rinse the heater afterward. Temp dropped 2degrees over a few hours.

My tank is covered in brown film and the water is murky. I'm about to do a water change. Could this indicate that my phosphates may have been very high? Test kit shows 0 phosphates. Nitrates have been kept over 4ppm.

Lost $400 in frags in just a weeks time. Totally crushed.

 

[markalot]

I would stop dosing phosphates, there are many forms of phosphates and test usually only detect specific forms. I had tried raising my nitrate to trace amounts before and had the same thing happen, SPS started STN overnight and turned to RTN the following day. Just because your test kit says you don’t have nitrates of phosphates doesn’t mean you don’t have any, it just means the algae is consuming it as fast as it’s added. I’ve learned to cut back on the filtrating and feed more balanced food with a more consistent schedule (autofeeder). As far as Alk goes I doubt it would be the cause, it defiantly will stress the SPS but shouldn’t kill them that quick with the exception of the most sensitive. I’ve kept SPS for years and have dosed daily and also gotten lazy where I would only test and dose once every few weeks and I would raise everything to where I wanted to keep in 1 shot, I would wait 20 min between dosing alk and calcium so they didn’t interact. Never lost any corals from shock either. I am currently back to manually dosing once a week as my carbonic doser has been sent in for repairs so my calcium reactor is down.

This might be good advice, but please be careful assuming SPS won't be rapidly killed with a rapid Alk rise. If you raised your Alk from 5 to 7 in a short period of time odds are everything will be fine. 7 to 9, greater odds of rapid decline and death. The decider is not only the target Alk level but also the original health of the acros. In addition, rapid death could be the result of something that happened 2 weeks ago.

I went through this for years until I finally figured it out. If you move anything too fast you risk tank implosion, and there will be people who tell you KH can move fast or PO4 can move fast and they never killed corals ... and they are not being dishonest, yet it's not true. The goal of the acro keeper is healthy acros and rock steady parameters, all parameters that can be held steady. The longer steady params exist the healthier the acros are and the healthier the acros the more they can withstand parameter swings.

This is EXACTLY why you see so many who haven't had issues for years and then suddenly boom .. I don't understand what is happening! For me it's simple. The health of the acro was compromised one too many times and that thing you never had a problem doing is suddenly a problem.

This is why I'm never convinced my tank will be alive tomorrow, and I never declare what acros can tolerate and what they can't because there is no single magic bullet to keep acros alive. Strive for steady in everything you do or you will pay the price someday.

In my opinion, of course, with visible results ... until tomorrow anyway.

 

[Aj.]

Hey man sorry for your loss. I’ve got a Nuvo fusion 20 with about 22 sps frags/mini colonies and it’s been running for almost a year now. I have a doser set to dose 4ml of brs 2 part 4 times a day. My alk stays between 7.5-8, I’ve got a co2 scrubber that keeps my ph between 8-8.4. Not sure why you have to dose no3 and po4 mine stays consistently between 1-2 no3 and .05-.08 po4. I have to change out phosguard weekly to biweekly depending on how much I feed to avoid going over .10 po4. I also have 4 fish in my 20 that’s probably why I don’t have problems with low nutrients. It probably helps that I have a block of marine pure and siporax in the back compartment of my tank as well as an eshopps hob skimmer rayed for 100g tank

 

[Mattrg02]

I'm convinced on needing to dose nitrates, but not so much phosphates. My corals paled out and bleached when my Red Sea pro nitrates test read zero. Keeping a consistent reading got my bleached out acros to a weird, bright, green color. They stayed that way for weeks before I began testing phosphates, daily, and finding them to be zero, hence the phosphates dosing.

Alkalinity seems to make sense. I was keeping it between 7-7.5dkh for months and didn't have any trouble, aside from bleached corals that were recovering. I then decided to raise alkalinity, slowly which is when trouble started, moving into the 8-9dkh range.

 

[tripdad]

I get that weird green color first on acros that have been in severe stress, then they start coloring back to reds, purples, blues,etc.. But always green first. Once you get that green just keep doing the same thing you have been, no changes.

 

[Mattrg02]

I get that weird green color first on acros that have been in severe stress, then they start coloring back to reds, purples, blues,etc.. But always green first. Once you get that green just keep doing the same thing you have been, no changes.

They are all white now :-(

 

[tripdad]

Yep, I know, I meant in the future, sorry. Keep hanging in there , you will get into a good place with the acros, you obviously care a great deal and that's what it really takes to succeed. Trust that we have all lost our share of expensive frags and doubted ourselves along the way, just keep on working at it. You will prevail.

 

[Mattrg02]

Yep, I know, I meant in the future, sorry. Keep hanging in there , you will get into a good place with the acros, you obviously care a great deal and that's what it really takes to succeed. Trust that we have all lost our share of expensive frags and doubted ourselves along the way, just keep on working at it. You will prevail.

Well, my PC rainbow is still green. It looks completely unaffected. I guess once it takes off, I'll try some more acros again. Dang I miss that fox flame and WD.

 

[victorcan]

What would the carbon have done?

So many variables here. Instead of focusing on one, and since I just have the pc rainbow left of the acros, I'm going to try doing just water changes and food for awhile now. No more testing, except for maybe nitrates, and see how it goes.

IMO in stripped the water too quickly..Thus shocking the SPS in my system. I have since cut way back and have not seen the literal overnight bleach out of my sps

 

[Donovan Joannes]

I am wondering whether dosing nitrate or phosphate does affect other parameters?. Potassium chloride, potassium nitrate, sodium nitrate etc, they all contains at least another element. For a big system, it might not be an issue. For a nano tank, hmmmmm. Maybe @Randy Holmes-Farley can tell us something we need to know.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Had my rbta stuck to mp10 foam guard for a day. No death, just upset looking.

Should have run aggressive carbon or purigen. Reactor style not passively like a bag in the Aq or sump.

Allepothay

 

[Mattrg02]

Should have run aggressive carbon or purigen. Reactor style not passively like a bag in the Aq or sump.

Allepothay

I had carbon running via hob filter (aquaclear).

Well, I stopped dosing alkalinity and my alkalinity is now 6-6.3dkh. My pc rainbow don't look happy anymore. I'm due for my weekly water change today. It's at 10dkh, so should bring me to 7.2dkh if I don't use any acid to drop it down from 10. What should I do?

Edit: Nitrates were zero today, despite me doubling the feedings. I'm going to have to dose something, water changes alone aren't going to cut it, I don't think.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I had carbon running via hob filter (aquaclear).

Yup. Carbon is most effective when the water runs through it rather than around it. Reactor vs bag.


I don't belive you should have stopped dosing entirely.

I would do a smaller water change to bring the alk back up.
Simpler.

But the 7.2 shouldn't be too big a swing.

 

[Mattrg02]

Yup. Carbon is most effective when the water runs through it rather than around it. Reactor vs bag.


I don't belive you should have stopped dosing entirely.

I would do a smaller water change to bring the alk back up.
Simpler.

But the 7.2 shouldn't be too big a swing.

Guess I'll just have to dose, just much less. I gave the tank a shot of nitrates and phosphates. Going to use the water change for the alkalinity.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Guess I'll just have to dose, just much less. I gave the tank a shot of nitrates and phosphates. Going to use the water change for the alkalinity.

Keep dosing equally and maybe back it off a bit, then reset the dose based on your alk consumption tests maybe.

IMO don't get too stressed about cal alk mag apperant imbalnces. Test inaccuracy etc are common. A tank always uses cal alk and mag evenly.

If you're dosing evenly and one does become high over time , it's becuse of the salt concentrations.