All fish have ich?

[Ollie_Fowler]

Right so i recently had an ich outbreak, either caused my new additions or may have shown up after rescaping.
I am now treating it in a hospital tank!
However all the stores around me (bristol, uk) keep telling me all fish have ich but something can trigger it.
I thought white spot was a parasite, can be treated, hence why we treat it. And it can be removed from tanks.

Can someone shed some light on this please.

 

[jduck]

Its possible that most fish can/will carry ich when purchased from a supplier. You can't always see it, could be just one spot in the gills. So it is best that everything that is put into your tank goes through QT procedure.
Ich is a parasite and can be removed from your system by allowing it to run fallow (without fish) for 12 weeks. As long as all the fish go through treatment when reintroduced, you will have an ich free system.

Side Note that I have come across -
If no new ich is introduce into an infected aquarium, the ich already there continues to cycle through multiple generations until about 10 to 11 months when the ich has ‘worn itself out’ and becomes less infective. A tank can be free of an ich infestation if it is never exposed to new ich parasites for over 11 months.

 

[Ollie_Fowler]

Thanks for you help. So why do all shops say all fish have ich? Isit just an excuse?
Do you hypo all your new fish or copper?

 

[Reefing Madness]

I kinda agree with the lfs, I woukd say its always in your tank. Proof is my Hippo, she'll always come down with it here and there, but never the other fish, and I havent added a thing to my tank in a very long time.

 

[Badfish83]

Ich free is very possible. LFS say that, I think, because that way they aren't held liable for quarantine. However, it's not their job to do so unless paid to.

 

[Aquaph8]

Thanks for you help. So why do all shops say all fish have ich? Isit just an excuse?
Do you hypo all your new fish or copper?

It's probably the most spread rumor in this hobby, probably cause people assume any little white spot is ich. If you want to avoid it just remember it can be transferred on anything wet.

 

[ritter6788]

Ich free is very possible.

Agreed.

Break the life cycle of the parasite and there's no way for it to survive. Ich cannot reproduce without a host. To say that fish always have and will always have ich is false.

 

[Lionfish Lair]

There's no chance every system has Ich.

 

[robert829]

I disagree w/ most... I am a firm believer that ICH is in every system and brought on by stress and poor nutrition.

 

[Badfish83]

Just out of curiosity, what makes you think that

 

[Reefing Madness]

I kinda agree with the lfs, I woukd say its always in your tank. Proof is my Hippo, she'll always come down with it here and there, but never the other fish, and I havent added a thing to my tank in a very long time.

This is why I believe that.

 

[fishroomlady]

I think it can be erradicated in a single system but I think it can be in a system and a healthy fish can fight it off or at least fend off an intense infection

is Renee' saying that it's impossible to not have ich?

 

[theguy67]

Just wanted to say that most of what I have read above is speculation. There is no way to prove that all tanks have ich, and I highly doubt that they do. That is using inductive logic, which is weak at best.

Just curious if any legitimate research has been done on this subject.

 

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

Agreed.

Break the life cycle of the parasite and there's no way for it to survive. Ich cannot reproduce without a host. To say that fish always have and will always have ich is false.

It's probably the most spread rumor in this hobby, probably cause people assume any little white spot is ich. If you want to avoid it just remember it can be transferred on anything wet.

I agree with the above statements. Ich is a parasite. It doesn't make sense to say that it has to be alive in all systems. If you have a contained, closed system that has not had it introduced, how could it possibly be there.

 

[robert829]

So, I am not trying to instigate a fight or battle, but I will offer this point of view.
In this hobby, we too many times offer our experiences or what we believe to be science as absolute fact. We all should stop offering these huge, sweeping, and concrete words of advice about stuff that may not be true. In biology and medicine (and this applies for my colleagues in veterinary medicine), there is no such thing as an absolute! And I mean there are NO absolutes. If you look in this very blog/forum, there are a host of posts from people who have systems w/ livestock that have been QTed for months at a time, and they all of a sudden have an outbreak out of the blue w/ no new additions in years. And if it's truly just a parasite of captive fish, it should be a cycle that is all too easy to break. Even more, there are way TOO MANY posts from people who say the only cures for ICH are fresh water dips and cooper. However, Naphthoquinone (the active ingredient in ICH Attack) has been well documented to cure ICH in peer-reviewed, blinded, emperical study. In fact, it is so good at killing single celled parasites like ICH, it is also currently being studied as a cure in humans for malaria (also a single celled parasite).
So what I am saying is that we should stop telling those of us who are young to this hobby (such as myself) all of these absolutes which are more based in mythology and tradition, rather than fact and science... But even as my little post would allude, this is just my belief... b/c remember, there is no such thing as an absolute in biology! :nerd:
So yes, I do indeed believe that ICH is present in all systems. B/c for me, it doesn't make biological sense that it could be any other way.

Love these conversaitions!
Cheers, folks! Continue to press on!

 

[ritter6788]

That's like saying all dogs have fleas and will always have fleas but the fleas only show up if the dog is stressed.

 

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

isn't the statement, "there are NO absolutes" in itself an absolute statement? It disqualifies itself. And if there were no absolutes...which is an absolute impossibility (sorry couldn't resist)...then you can't say that ich is present in all systems...because it's another absolute statement.

 

[robert829]

Yes!!! Lol. Agreed.

 

[NanaReefer]

If ICH is present in my tank, and in order for ICH to survive it has to eat, would I not eventually see the ICH on the fish? I mean a fish that is infected with the parasite will eventually show symptoms of some kind, don't you think?
I for one believe it is possible to have a parasite free tank

 

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

If ICH is present in my tank, and in order for ICH to survive it has to eat, would I not eventually see the ICH on the fish? I mean a fish that is infected with the parasite will eventually show symptoms of some kind, don't you think?
I for one believe it is possible to have a parasite free tank

And if a tank had ich, and then (to add to this argument) were to be left fishless/fallow, then there would be nothing to eat at all which would necessitate starvation (after a period of time) which would mean the tank would no longer have ich. Then if a fish without ich were introduced, there's no way he could get ich (since it is no longer present in the system).