All new Tangs Died

jlts21 · Jan 1, 2020

IKD said:
This is a 300 gallon tank? I thought the evolution aqua 1200 was 441 litres (116 gallons)

eaReefPro Aquariums

Evolution Aqua Koi Pond Filtration Solutions

evolutionaqua.com

The evolution aqua 1200 is 116g. I don’t understand why aquarium manufacturers use random numbers. Why not use the actual volume of the tank?

45ZoaGarden · Jan 1, 2020

jlts21 said:
The evolution aqua 1200 is 116g. I don’t understand why aquarium manufacturers use random numbers. Why not use the actual volume of the tank?

Because they probably mean 120 but adding zeros is fun. And it makes it sound cooler. LOL

GlassMunky · Jan 1, 2020

jlts21 said:
The evolution aqua 1200 is 116g. I don’t understand why aquarium manufacturers use random numbers. Why not use the actual volume of the tank?

That would make too much sense lol

IKD · Jan 1, 2020

Either way, adding 20L (4 gallons) isn’t likely to factor in since it’s still low volume. I think we are back to needing the acclimation procedure used and values of current tank parameters with the test kits used

jlts21 · Jan 1, 2020

IKD said:
Either way, adding 20L (4 gallons) isn’t likely to factor in since it’s still low volume. I think we are back to needing the acclimation procedure used and values of current tank parameters with the test kits used

Agreed

45ZoaGarden · Jan 1, 2020

IKD said:
Either way, adding 20L (4 gallons) isn’t likely to factor in since it’s still low volume. I think we are back to needing the acclimation procedure used and values of current tank parameters with the test kits used

4 gallons isn’t a big swing in a 120...That’s only 3%

rlman41299 · Jan 1, 2020

What is your form of water flow? Do you have a sump? What is your water turnover rate. I am guessing it might be a lack of oxygen specially for the larger species. Oxygen levels go down as soon as the lights go out

IKD · Jan 1, 2020

45ZoaGarden said:
4 gallons isn’t a big swing in a 120...That’s only 3%

I agree with you

EMeyer · Jan 1, 2020

I'm guessing its acclimation. Yeah, disease can kill a fish quickly but from going from apparently healthy to dead overnight is rare IME.

I've seen huge variation in how people acclimate fish after arrival and without trying to start a big argument, I think some of the common acclimation practices are harmful to fish. If I had to guess, I'd guess acclimation did these tangs in.

Omgitsjoe · Jan 1, 2020

EMeyer said:
I'm guessing its acclimation. Yeah, disease can kill a fish quickly but from going from apparently healthy to dead overnight is rare IME.

I've seen huge variation in how people acclimate fish after arrival and without trying to start a big argument, I think some of the common acclimation practices are harmful to fish. If I had to guess, I'd guess acclimation did these tangs in.

Gram negative infections act quickly, sometimes killing the fish within 24 hours of onset.

ThePurple12 · Jan 1, 2020

MERKEY said:
Unfortunately parameters only tell you when the bacteria is strong enough to start processing ammonia, which indicates an end to a cycle. Once cycled the bacteria needs time to build while you add livestock. This means fish AND coral

If TOO much livestock is added it very well could have been TOO much for the new bacteria in the tank to handle, thus leading to the deaths....this is a very possible scenario.

That's true, but if an overload killed the fish, wouldn't there be an increase in nitrate soon after? Also, the corals and other fish weren't affected at all, which makes it very likely that the new tangs died of stress from improper acclimation.

EMeyer · Jan 1, 2020

Omgitsjoe said:
Gram negative infections act quickly, sometimes killing the fish within 24 hours of onset.

I wouldnt rule it out, I agree, just saying we have a known stress (acclimation), I suspect that first before invoking another thing (disease) that we have no direct evidence for yet. But we're basically shooting in the dark here so you may be right

By the way, I have found a surprising number of tanks (>10%) have a known fish pathogen, Photobacterium damselae. I wonder, do you have any personal experience with bacterial fish mortality? I would love to get samples from fish that died of suspect bacterial causes.

PanchoG · Jan 1, 2020

I will think also a salinity shock, do you have measurements before and after the RO addition?

Omgitsjoe · Jan 1, 2020

EMeyer said:
I wouldnt rule it out, I agree, just saying we have a known stress (acclimation), I suspect that first before invoking another thing (disease) that we have no direct evidence for yet. But we're basically shooting in the dark here so you may be right

By the way, I have found a surprising number of tanks (>10%) have a known fish pathogen, Photobacterium damselae. I wonder, do you have any personal experience with bacterial fish mortality? I would love to get samples from fish that died of suspect bacterial causes.

Ive personally fought both Brooklynella and Uronema. These are both NASTY infections. If caught in time you can win the battle.

Quietman · Jan 1, 2020

Curious..the Regal Tang seems to be fine as are the damsels (no surprise, very hardy fish). Do you know if the two that died came from same tank at the LFS or where they packed together and separately from the Regal? Looking for infection before they got to you, that with the stress of moving resulted in the loss.

IKD · Jan 1, 2020

We have almost 3 pages of discussion on this post without any further information from the OP yet

I think we need some more information before we can narrow down possible root causes

Matthatrick · Jan 1, 2020

MERKEY said:
Unfortunately parameters only tell you when the bacteria is strong enough to start processing ammonia, which indicates an end to a cycle. Once cycled the bacteria needs time to build while you add livestock. This means fish AND coral

If TOO much livestock is added it very well could have been TOO much for the new bacteria in the tank to handle, thus leading to the deaths....this is a very possible scenario.

OP in your post you said you added 15L or RO water. As stated above fresh water will shock fish but dropping salinity should not have killed the fish, hypo salinity is used as a QT hospital method very widely in this hobby....I would rule this out.

Light will not kill fish....I would rule that out

The damsels will definitely bully fish to death especially new ones. Although if this happened in 1 night that is a bit far for them to kill 2 fish in 1 night....I would rule this out but a close second place.

Did the tangs have any signs of disease or parasites? White stringy poop? White spots? Anything unusual? Unless we know %100 while being observed in a QT we really probably wont know.

When you say parameters are perfect...what does this mean? Every tank is different so numbers really do matter. What test kits do you use?

With other fish still alive, your tank IS processing the ammonia and the death of the new fish. If the others are all good you have no more free floating ammonia.

I believe you over worked the bacteria in a NEWLY cycled tank. Most of us are guilty of this.

Unless another fish dies thats probably what's happening. The only thing that will help this is time and a water change with SEA water.

I could be wrong but let's ask @brandon429 as he has talked about this a lot in his sand rinsing threads.

Thanks for all the replies.
What I test was test my PH, Amonia, Nitrates and Nitrites. They were all fine.

They looked really happy, but there was stringy poop , but thought nothing of it.
I can see the last Regal Tang at the back of the tank now with white parasites on him, he doesn’t look good.

To climitize I dripped my tank water in over a 45 min period and then introduced them.

I also treat the tank weekly with fluval cycle.
I dosed the tank after introducing them as well.

I use the Red Sea test kit along with the Red Sea Energy A and B for corals.

It seems I have to top up my tank every few days with 10-15 litres , not sure if this is normal.

I also run a refugim in my sump.

45ZoaGarden · Jan 1, 2020

Matthatrick said:
Thanks for all the replies.
What I test was test my PH, Amonia, Nitrates and Nitrites. They were all fine.

They looked really happy, but there was stringy poop , but thought nothing of it.
I can see the last Regal Tang at the back of the tank now with white parasites on him, he doesn’t look good.

To climitize I dripped my tank water in over a 45 min period and then introduced them.

I also treat the tank weekly with fluval cycle.
I dosed the tank after introducing them as well.

I use the Red Sea test kit along with the Red Sea Energy A and B for corals.

It seems I have to top up my tank every few days with 10-15 litres , not sure if this is normal.

I also run a refugim in my sump.

Yes but what is normal? Post the results (numbers) please.