Almost 4 month old tank with a new ugly phase?

[NitroJoe]

I will attach a few pics but this stuff has been growing now for 1-2 weeks and it is on the highest surfaces of rock facing the lights. It doesn’t just rub off with a toothbrush like the diatoms did and look carefully the little tufts grow from little points, and look like hair plugs! Would be fitting if this were some sort of hair algae. I THINK my clown and DesJardin tangs are picking it off the lower rocks but don’t go up top because the flow is high.

On my thumb is one tuft growing from a node which shows it is more of a brown under ambient sunlight. The other two show it is distributed on light covered surfaces closer to the lights.

Not really doing a lot about it right now. Chemistries look good. 77F, 35ppt, 0 phos, pH 8.2, no nitrates or nitrates detectable with my Red Sea kits or at the LFS. Running Orphek iCons, which recently (this weekend), turned down lights due to high PAR readings. Too soon to notice much change. Have a small refugium but parts for a larger 9 gallon dedicated refugium are on the way.

 

[ElementReefer]

Looks like crysophytes.

From BRS:

“Chrysophytes are a kind of algae meaning they are photosynthetic and thrive under light but what makes them especially unique is their ability to turn predatory. They can actually acquire nutrients by preying on microbes when light sources are not sufficient. It is rare for chrysophytes to share the tank with other pests and they tend to show up in only the most sterile approaches to cycling a tank (dry rock and dry sand) and when nitrate and phosphate are not abundant. Presumably, this ability to sequester nutrients via photosynthesis and predation allows for their prevalence in this environment.”

 

[NitroJoe]

Looks like crysophytes.

From BRS:

“Chrysophytes are a kind of algae meaning they are photosynthetic and thrive under light but what makes them especially unique is their ability to turn predatory. They can actually acquire nutrients by preying on microbes when light sources are not sufficient. It is rare for chrysophytes to share the tank with other pests and they tend to show up in only the most sterile approaches to cycling a tank (dry rock and dry sand) and when nitrate and phosphate are not abundant. Presumably, this ability to sequester nutrients via photosynthesis and predation allows for their prevalence in this environment.”

A little search and that would seem like pretty bad news. I did start with dry Marco rock because good live rock is not readily available. I did use live sand. My nitrates, nitrites and phosphates have all registered as zero since this stuff showed up.

Treatment is confusing. I need to use potassium nitrate to increase nitrates and something to increase phosphates? How does this work? Does it give a foothold to other algae to out compete the chrysophytes?

I am attaching a more current picture. Showing it is pretty thick and the way it grows from little “plugs” on the overflow.

 

[ElementReefer]

You could dose phosphate and nitrate, or you could simply start feeding more and taking a toothbrush to your rocks. Meanwhile you could add some competing microbes like Dr Tim’s or Microbacter.

I personally wouldn’t even worry about a refugium until you have detectable nutrients, but opinions vary.

 

[Lavey29]

You will be experiencing various ugly phases throughout the course of the first year however with bottomed out nutrients of 0 phosphate and 0 nitrates then your ugly phases are going to be much worse and not manageable at all.

 

[NitroJoe]

Is over-feeding a good way to introduce extra nitrates and phosphates? Seems more natural. I pulled back on my white and red spectrum today and can also do that for a while. Still not seeing the slightest coralline.

 

[Lavey29]

Is over-feeding a good way to introduce extra nitrates and phosphates? Seems more natural. I pulled back on my white and red spectrum today and can also do that for a while. Still not seeing the slightest coralline.

That is one way to do it. When my tank was young I had to double dose neophos and neonitro for multiple months to maintain numbers. Coraline shows up on plastic parts like powerheads typically first if tank parameters are good. Maybe around 6 months or so if you seeded it too.

 

[NitroJoe]

That is one way to do it. When my tank was young I had to double dose neophos and neonitro for multiple months to maintain numbers. Coraline shows up on plastic parts like powerheads typically first if tank parameters are good. Maybe around 6 months or so if you seeded it too.

I did seed it. Ok. I will carry on. The chrysophytes sound stubborn.

 

[Lavey29]

As various types of algae increase so should your cleaner crew. A diverse cleaner crew is essential that includes a couple turbos and tuxedo urchins. If tank is big enough a conch is good for the sand along with tongan nacarius snails.

 

[Lavey29]

I did seed it. Ok. I will carry on. The chrysophytes sound stubborn.

I found the best way to handle algae issues early on as the tank is developing was to cut lights to 6 hours for a few weeks with blue and UV only no whites. Increase magnesium to 1500, add diverse cleaner crew, weekly water changes with manual removal, focus on stability and proper parameters. Dose pods and then phytoplankton daily. Key is building biodiversity and micro fauna for a strong biome. I dose PNS probio weekly which is a heterotrophic bacteria that breaks down organic waste before it feeds the algae in the tank.

 

[JohnNYC8]

Is over-feeding a good way to introduce extra nitrates and phosphates? Seems more natural. I pulled back on my white and red spectrum today and can also do that for a while. Still not seeing the slightest coralline.

I second @ElementReefer's advice and you'll have to really stay on top of your numbers to measure the impact you're having.

I would reference this post and ask for a routine from the Reef Chemistry forum that @Randy Holmes-Farley runs. Overfeeding and manual removal may only get you so far--it may require direct dosing which I wouldn't do until you have a solid plan.

 

[NitroJoe]

As various types of algae increase so should your cleaner crew. A diverse cleaner crew is essential that includes a couple turbos and tuxedo urchins. If tank is big enough a conch is good for the sand along with tongan nacarius snails.

I have the tangs and a host of hermits. I wanted to avoid the snails. Hoping to add a starry blenny to the team but just can’t find one or tuxedo urchins. I will have to look into these options!

 

[NitroJoe]

I found the best way to handle algae issues early on as the tank is developing was to cut lights to 6 hours for a few weeks with blue and UV only no whites. Increase magnesium to 1500, add diverse cleaner crew, weekly water changes with manual removal, focus on stability and proper parameters. Dose pods and then phytoplankton daily. Key is building biodiversity and micro fauna for a strong biome. I dose PNS probio weekly which is a heterotrophic bacteria that breaks down organic waste before it feeds the algae in the tank.

I favor this approach as a biologist. Micro-ecology focus seems the best long term bet. Not to mention safest/easiest.

Is PNS a brand? Is it anything like Seachem Stabilize?

 

[Lavey29]

I have the tangs and a host of hermits. I wanted to avoid the snails. Hoping to add a starry blenny to the team but just can’t find one or tuxedo urchins. I will have to look into these options!

Why no snails? They get into areas other algae eaters don't go. Crabs are better for detritus but not algae. Urchins are algae eating machines but will also eat coralline in the tank.

 

[NitroJoe]

I second @ElementReefer's advice and you'll have to really stay on top of your numbers to measure the impact you're having.

I would reference this post and ask for a routine from the Reef Chemistry forum that @Randy Holmes-Farley runs. Overfeeding and manual removal may only get you so far--it may require direct dosing which I wouldn't do until you have a solid plan.

There may be no avoiding some dosing, but honestly I worry about replacing one problem with another. I did have whites & reds too high. This bloom actually happened just over a week ago looking more at pictures, so I am adjusting my practices before starting those other dosing ideas. I feel I have a lot that deserves attention first. I will look at this posts though. Thank you for the ideas. TYVM.

 

[Lavey29]

I favor this approach as a biologist. Micro-ecology focus seems the best long term bet. Not to mention safest/easiest.

Is PNS a brand? Is it anything like Seachem Stabilize?

Yes PNS probio is one of their products. Algae barn sells it. It's natural heterotrophic bacteria. I also very much endorse the natural approach to tank care. I try to avoid harsh chemicals at all costs.

 

[NitroJoe]

Why no snails? They get into areas other algae eaters don't go. Crabs are better for detritus but not algae. Urchins are algae eating machines but will also eat coralline in the tank.

Yeah. Don’t want them munching coralline as I need that to grow. Snails because they can be hard to remove…. Perhaps I should rethink this. The hermits do go up there and pick at the algae sometimes. Just usually too busy cleaning up after feeding. I enjoy them.

 

[Lavey29]

Yeah. Don’t want them munching coralline as I need that to grow. Snails because they can be hard to remove…. Perhaps I should rethink this. The hermits do go up there and pick at the algae sometimes. Just usually too busy cleaning up after feeding. I enjoy them.

My tank is covered in coralline and I have 3 urchins. They won't stop it from spreading once it starts and they bulldoze algae.

I have like 5 different types of snails in my cleaner crew because they specialize in different things and patrol different areas. Some like the sand, some the rocks, some the glass, etc... it's all about a well balanced strong biome.

 

[Lavey29]

Yes, I fought Mother Nature. When I saw the brown algae I immediately jumped into action as though something was not right. Fix it now mode! I lost.

After being calmed down and reassured by the local veterans that this is normal for any new, healthy tank, I began to become more curious about the diatoms that are causing the brown algae and how long will they last. So I thought I'd ask Reef Central and see what you have been through.

My tank is almost 2 months old. When the first bloom hit it was likely due to phosphate because I Immediately got the gfo media reactor and things cleared right up pretty quick. I thought I'd won the battle.I was so proud. Wow I was wrong. the next wave hit like a ton of bricks and came on like a ****ed off x girlfriend. I was told by several the all I did was delay the inevitable. Its brown. its ugly. And its back with a vengeance. And now I'm curious.

For those that have been there done that, how long did it take before your algae basically starved itself to death and begin disappearing? After all, if my phosphates are relatively 0, Its got to be the silicates from my substrate and other rocks in the tank. Eventually they have to consume all of it. I've been told at least a two month stretch. So how long did you go through it?

Diatoms go away in a few weeks by themselves once the silicate in the sand is gone. You can extend the problem if you have silicate in your RODI though. Other brown, green slime or turf algae, GHA are normal experiences over the course of the first year but you don't want bottomed out nutrients like 0 phosphate or 0 nitrates because you open the door for more invasive algae like dinos.

 

[vetteguy53081]

A little search and that would seem like pretty bad news. I did start with dry Marco rock because good live rock is not readily available. I did use live sand. My nitrates, nitrites and phosphates have all registered as zero since this stuff showed up.

Treatment is confusing. I need to use potassium nitrate to increase nitrates and something to increase phosphates? How does this work? Does it give a foothold to other algae to out compete the chrysophytes?

I am attaching a more current picture. Showing it is pretty thick and the way it grows from little “plugs” on the overflow.

Agree on Chrsophytes and is labor work for removal. Take the rock out and place in large container with tank water.
Give the tank a good siphon and clean all filters and skimmer if you have one.
Scrub the rock with a firm toothbrush Or auto detail brush and 3% peroxide. Agitate to shake off particles and add cleaners such as Pitho crabs, chiton snails, ninja star snails and caribbean blue leg hermits to help with control and reduce white intensity a little and increase water flow. You likely have inadequate flow which allowed this to adhere to rock