Almost Completed!!

[Sleeping Giant]

I’m not sure you’re learning the lesson that TJ is trying to help you with. Or perhaps it’s just not coming across in your posts. Sorry if I come across as harsh. Ammonia is very toxic at low doses. You should not have any ammonia in a healthy reef tank. It should be zero. The fact that you have 0.25 ammonia after a 50% change is still significant cause for concern. Your remaining fish may die. If there are animals that have died in your tank, as they decay, they will break down into ammonia. Your relatively new tank biofilter might not be able to handle it, so your ammonia becomes detectable. If I had ammonia in my tank it would be a huge deal.

While some sort of infection may have started this (who knows) your immediate problem is the ammonia.

It’s really hard to give advice in this situation. It seems strange to be thinking about the flow or the nem or the flower pot with ammonia present in the tank. If there is anything dead in the tank, try to find it and remove it. Stop any feeding of the tank for now. You can dose prime into the main display. You can catch the fish and take them out of the tank into a QT situation with a heater and bubbler and maybe some live rock.

Might be something dead in the pot, under the anemone..I dunno

 

[dreamcatcherr9]

HOB filter on 75g? Size and type? Skimmer? Other filtration?

And your future 180, what’s your filtration plans for that? Just curious...,,

 

[Rick.45cal]

So you mentioned this is the first time you have been making RO water at home, are you using a DeIonization resins too? Have you tested your water from the RO/DI to see if it has ammonia in it? It’s possible that your municipal water supply is treating your water with Chloramines which can sneak by your RO membrane. It would also explain why when you changed 50% of your water your ammonia level was still 0.25ppm. What brand of test kit are you testing for ammonia with?

My other thoughts are if you have an ammonia spike the last thing you want to do is remove the surfaces your nitrifying bacteria like to colonize. Like your sand, and your rocks and bio media in your filter system.

I know when things like this happen your inclination is to want to do as much as possible to fix anything and everything that can or may be wrong, and you MUST resist this temptation. Doing everything at once will only compound the problem and make things worse. You MUST slow down and start doing things very analytically and methotically, Ecosystems that thrive on stability don’t like changes, and making lots of big changes is a recipe for disaster.

I’m sorry for your fish, we’ll help you through this so it doesn’t happen again but it is going to take time and patience on your part

 

[Difrano]

I removed 1/2 the sand bed, the larger rocks & cleaned the filter.

Ok I think you got it worse doing this first removing 1/2 the sand you removed a big chunk of beneficial bacteria, plus stirring the sand bed you released all the nitrogen sulfide that muy be trapped on and also you released a lot of nutrients that were trapped back in the water, then when you removed the large rock is another big chunk of bacteria gone. Now low bacteria+dead fish+nutrients released+toxins released, the tank crashed badly, I would say that your .25 ammonia is way higher are you using API?. Remove the fish Do a 100% water change Add bacteria fast and let the tank cycle...
Plus I hope you learned the lesson, don't add anything to a tank that you cannot confirm what's in it, an anemone inside a flower pot your raise lots of alarms, tanks are not super mario games.

 

[T-J]

Ok, not trying to be rude, but here’s a few things I want you to understand. Everything that’s been said by the other reefers here is really good advice. You’re making big changes in short periods of time, which is really bad. It’s also obvious you aren’t really in tune with this hobby yet, and that’s ok! You just need to slooooow down and look at what people are telling you.
You listed this as your parameters:
Ph 7.8
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 80 ppm
Ammonia .25
dKH 7
Ppm GM/KH 125.3
Temp 78.8
Salinity 1.020 w refractometer

Ph is fine. Don’t worry about that. Nitrate is really high. Ammonia is super high. Salinity is low. Are these your numbers after the water change? What’s the source of your water?

we’re here to help, but please follow what others have said.

 

[susan ingram]

Thank you and I do understand what you and TJ are trying to tell me. I am ultimately trying to focus on the source of the ammonia and thus was backtracking to try and figure out when the spike occurred. As I stated I removed all but some of the sand, I didn’t want to have that clouding up the tank as well. Because of the inability to control the pH, I was also trying to figure out why it dropped so quickly.
Ammonia is still measuring at .25. I don’t have another tank so I will do another water change tonight.

Thanks everyone for the help... I appreciate it. I think it is best to euthanize these guys if things don’t change by morning and move on.

Good luck and it was nice meeting you and thanks again.

 

[susan ingram]

HOB filter on 75g? Size and type? Skimmer? Other filtration?

And your future 180, what’s your filtration plans for that? Just curious...,,

 

[susan ingram]

It’s a sea chem tidal 110. Plans for the 185 50 gal sump, protein skimmer, calcium reactor UV all being cleaned and waiting to be installed.

 

[susan ingram]

Ok I think you got it worse doing this first removing 1/2 the sand you removed a big chunk of beneficial bacteria, plus stirring the sand bed you released all the nitrogen sulfide that muy be trapped on and also you released a lot of nutrients that were trapped back in the water, then when you removed the large rock is another big chunk of bacteria gone. Now low bacteria+dead fish+nutrients released+toxins released, the tank crashed badly, I would say that your .25 ammonia is way higher are you using API?. Remove the fish Do a 100% water change Add bacteria fast and let the tank cycle...
Plus I hope you learned the lesson, don't add anything to a tank that you cannot confirm what's in it, an anemone inside a flower pot your raise lots of alarms, tanks are not super mario games.

WOW!! Thought this was a supportive community. I haven’t slept in days I realize they are not video games I’m not 14 years old.
Look obviously you all did it right your first time out too... sorry I wasted your time.

 

[susan ingram]

Ok, not trying to be rude, but here’s a few things I want you to understand. Everything that’s been said by the other reefers here is really good advice. You’re making big changes in short periods of time, which is really bad. It’s also obvious you aren’t really in tune with this hobby yet, and that’s ok!

Really?? Doesn’t seem like it’s ok. I’m trying to do my best here and quite honestly being told this isn’t a video game doesn’t feel real supportive. No one said not to do what I did. It sounded like I was supposed to find the source STAT and remove it. I have been listening and trying to get help from my LFS as well. I tried... sorry to waste your time.

You just need to slooooow down and look at what people are telling you.

I am trying to do that as well, you at the time we’re the only one giving advice and I tried to follow it based on what little I understand about all of this. It took 2 years of reading everything I could find before making the jump and now it feels like it was a waste of time. Sorry but lack of sleep and guilt that I killed these creatures is taking it’s toll.

we’re here to help, but please follow what others have said.

 

[susan ingram]

So I just searched the forums and came across this post from 2016: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/clay-or-terracotta-pot-question.262162/

It seems according to this user, if terra-cotta is not cured it can throw off nitrates & ammonia into the tank. I had been given the clownfish with a small clay pot as well. I think this may have caused the initial problem. Now that they are both gone, I will do a complete tear down of the tank in the morning and set up the 40 QT tank in the morning. I just did a 25% change and will see how it looks in the morning.

I really do appreciate the help, but some of the posts really bothered me. It didn’t make sense imho to not try and figure out the origination of the problem, maybe I am not on the same wavelength as others, maybe I should think about it using different logic.

Thank you again and I will keep those interested updates.

 

[susan ingram]

So you mentioned this is the first time you have been making RO water at home, are you using a DeIonization resins too? Have you tested your water from the RO/DI to see if it has ammonia in it? It’s possible that your municipal water supply is treating your water with Chloramines which can sneak by your RO membrane. It would also explain why when you changed 50% of your water your ammonia level was still 0.25ppm. What brand of test kit are you testing for ammonia with?

My other thoughts are if you have an ammonia spike the last thing you want to do is remove the surfaces your nitrifying bacteria like to colonize. Like your sand, and your rocks and bio media in your filter system.

I know when things like this happen your inclination is to want to do as much as possible to fix anything and everything that can or may be wrong, and you MUST resist this temptation. Doing everything at once will only compound the problem and make things worse. You MUST slow down and start doing things very analytically and methotically, Ecosystems that thrive on stability don’t like changes, and making lots of big changes is a recipe for disaster.

I’m sorry for your fish, we’ll help you through this so it doesn’t happen again but it is going to take time and patience on your part

Thanks Rick. Yes, today was the first day I made it. Had been using premix from my local shop prior to today. I measured for all the parameters I stated and the salinity which was 1.020 prior to putting it in the tank.

I just checked on them, the blennie and fox face are showing better coloring, eyes looked a little smaller and moving around the tank more. I’ll keep the lights off tomorrow as well and see how they are doing then.

One of the large pieces of live rock was still wet, so I put that back in the tank. It’s pretty substantial so I’m hoping the will help with beneficial bacteria. I get that I removed too much.

Thanks again for everyone that provided useful comments and help... it is appreciated!!!!

 

[Rick.45cal]

@susan ingram try testing the water that comes out of your RO/DI for ammonia, start there first. If you are using an API ammonia test kit, I’d highly recommend getting a different brand, as that test kit is known to be terribly inaccurate and often times will show false positives. If your newly made RO/DI water show ammonia then chloramines are likely present. (You can test your tap water too, if it has ammonia in it then it’s a pretty safe bet it’s got chloramines in it and you’ll need to use a different type of carbon block in your RO unit to properly scrub the water free of them).

First off it’s ok to feel the way you are feeling, if you didn’t feel bad about what happened that would be a problem. There are lots of us here that have made mistakes that have had terrible consequences for our livestock too, you are not alone. All of us have learned hard lessons in this hobby one way or another. So let’s find the cause and fix it so it never happens again. It’s wonderful to hear that you spent a couple years studying this hobby before jumping it with gusto, that‘s awesome and will help you out in the long run, but unfortunately it doesn’t make reefkeeping any easier, especially at times like this. You’re not expected to know it all, especially how to act in a crisis situation. That only comes from experience. I’m sorry you are having a really really bad experience right now. So catch your breath and your bearings and lets find the solution to your problem.

First off removing the terracotta pot was a prudent decision, it may or may not be the cause of the ammonia but you’ve eliminated it from the equation.

Do you have any bottled bacteria for starting tanks? Like Dr. Tim’s or BioSpira etc. If you do I would go ahead and add a hefty dose to the tank, that would help boost the population of nitrifying bacteria in the system to help start processing the ammonia naturally.

Completely breaking down the tank may not be the best solution as you will be starting over completely from scratch and will have to restart the cycle completely.

I would also add some activated carbon to your filter somewhere if you have some. Not a whole ton of it, but a normal amount to help pull any possible contaminant out that may be the cause.

 

[Rick.45cal]

Putting the rock back in was a good move . Since it was still wet, the good bacteria will still be alive and well

 

[susan ingram]

@susan ingram try testing the water that comes out of your RO/DI for ammonia, start there first. If you are using an API ammonia test kit, I’d highly recommend getting a different brand, as that test kit is known to be terribly inaccurate and often times will show false positives. If your newly made RO/DI water show ammonia then chloramines are likely present. (You can test your tap water too, if it has ammonia in it then it’s a pretty safe bet it’s got chloramines in it and you’ll need to use a different type of carbon block in your RO unit to properly scrub the water free of them).

First off it’s ok to feel the way you are feeling, if you didn’t feel bad about what happened that would be a problem. There are lots of us here that have made mistakes that have had terrible consequences for our livestock too, you are not alone. All of us have learned hard lessons in this hobby one way or another. So let’s find the cause and fix it so it never happens again. It’s wonderful to hear that you spent a couple years studying this hobby before jumping it with gusto, that‘s awesome and will help you out in the long run, but unfortunately it doesn’t make reefkeeping any easier, especially at times like this. You’re not expected to know it all, especially how to act in a crisis situation. That only comes from experience. I’m sorry you are having a really really bad experience right now. So catch your breath and your bearings and lets find the solution to your problem.

First off removing the terracotta pot was a prudent decision, it may or may not be the cause of the ammonia but you’ve eliminated it from the equation.

Do you have any bottled bacteria for starting tanks? Like Dr. Tim’s or BioSpira etc. If you do I would go ahead and add a hefty dose to the tank, that would help boost the population of nitrifying bacteria in the system to help start processing the ammonia naturally.

Completely breaking down the tank may not be the best solution as you will be starting over completely from scratch and will have to restart the cycle completely.

I would also add some activated carbon to your filter somewhere if you have some. Not a whole ton of it, but a normal amount to help pull any possible contaminant out that may be the cause.

Thanks so much!!! I know I’m being over sensitive but..... thank you.

I did add a bit of carbon to the HOB about 1/2 cup into a bag. I have the flow set on medium. I have been using the API test kit, do you have a recommendation on a better testing system? I noticed that the Seachem Ammo Alert is not registering at .25 is shows 0. I think that’s part of the frustration.

I threw in another capful of prime & stability before heading to bed. The guys at the local shop said you can’t really use too much in this type of situation.

Thanks again to all and have a great night!!

 

[spfahnestock]

So... You said your test kit registers 25 but (I am guessing here) the hang on ammonia alert tab is at 0. This would lead me to believe that the problem may not be as bad as initially thought. I do believe those ammonia alerts have a effective period (3 months or so).

If this was me before I did any other changes I would take a sample of my water to the local LFS and ask them to test it. I would also look into getting another test kit to check my water source at home.

The confusing part for me is if you have done large water change(s) your level should be dropping as you are diluting the problem. If this isn't really happening then I would again lean towards a bad test kit.

Have you checked the expiration date on the test kit?

Remember to stay patient and work through this. I have made tons of mistakes and still do and each one is a learning experience.

 

[Thespammailaccount]

Ok I think you got it worse doing this first removing 1/2 the sand you removed a big chunk of beneficial bacteria, plus stirring the sand bed you released all the nitrogen sulfide that muy be trapped on and also you released a lot of nutrients that were trapped back in the water, then when you removed the large rock is another big chunk of bacteria gone. Now low bacteria+dead fish+nutrients released+toxins released, the tank crashed badly, I would say that your .25 ammonia is way higher are you using API?. Remove the fish Do a 100% water change Add bacteria fast and let the tank cycle...
Plus I hope you learned the lesson, don't add anything to a tank that you cannot confirm what's in it, an anemone inside a flower pot your raise lots of alarms, tanks are not super mario games.

Some people use clay pots to make clown fish eggs easy to move

 

[Thespammailaccount]

Thanks so much!!! I know I’m being over sensitive but..... thank you.

I did add a bit of carbon to the HOB about 1/2 cup into a bag. I have the flow set on medium. I have been using the API test kit, do you have a recommendation on a better testing system? I noticed that the Seachem Ammo Alert is not registering at .25 is shows 0. I think that’s part of the frustration.

I threw in another capful of prime & stability before heading to bed. The guys at the local shop said you can’t really use too much in this type of situation.

Thanks again to all and have a great night!!

The ammonia you are registering could be from chloramines. Test the water that you are using for a water change for ammonia and let me know what you get

 

[Thespammailaccount]

Ok I think you got it worse doing this first removing 1/2 the sand you removed a big chunk of beneficial bacteria, plus stirring the sand bed you released all the nitrogen sulfide that muy be trapped on and also you released a lot of nutrients that were trapped back in the water, then when you removed the large rock is another big chunk of bacteria gone. Now low bacteria+dead fish+nutrients released+toxins released, the tank crashed badly, I would say that your .25 ammonia is way higher are you using API?. Remove the fish Do a 100% water change Add bacteria fast and let the tank cycle...
Plus I hope you learned the lesson, don't add anything to a tank that you cannot confirm what's in it, an anemone inside a flower pot your raise lots of alarms, tanks are not super mario games.

Anemones and clay pots are a common pair. Many also use clay pots to breed fish. https://www.irishfishkeepers.com/forum-15561/516-corals-and-inverts/29586-potting-up-an-anemone

 

[najer]

I read the whole post, hopefully that pot was / is the cause.
Thank you for posting the link, I got an Indo. nepthea a while back in what looked like a candle holder and is some type of clay, I am going to remove it now.
I hope your fish come through this for you and as above get your water double checked by your lfs or a friend.