Am I crazy for thinking MH + t5 ?

[AllSignsPointToFish]

I get pretty good growth with Montipora, Seriatopora, Echniata, Acanthastrea, and Eupyllia under LEDs. My limited amount of Acropora has struggled, but I believe that was due to lower water flow than lighting issues.

 

[aabjones888]

I donno about for that light, but I don't, I believe I have a big enough sump to help with my temp. It never rises more than a degree. I have a 80g with a 55g sump. My house is always 70-71 degrees.

 

[jackson6745]

It's hard to beat the look of a 400w radium with supplement T5's. Yes you will have a ton of heat but the growth and color will be awesome giving the proper nutrient balance. In this route I would suggest a 72" giesemann spectra, although I think 3x24" spectras mounted adjacent would give better coverage (but changinging 12x24" t5's would be a pain).

Anyway, As a long time halide/t5 user I absolutely hated LED. The lack of coverage, weird spectrums, initial cost, forever changing models resulting in low resale value), and overall lack of result kept me away. Not to mention poor results with Radion g2. For the last few months I've been running the G4 xr30 pros and the results have been great. Comparable color to halide, and good coral growth. The coverage is very good, I don't notice a dico effect. The only downfall is that you'll need 6 of these fixtures to cover your tank for SPS. Very expensive startup.....

 

[Bruce Burnett]

It's hard to beat the look of a 400w radium with supplement T5's. Yes you will have a ton of heat but the growth and color will be awesome giving the proper nutrient balance. In this route I would suggest a 72" giesemann spectra, although I think 3x24" spectras mounted adjacent would give better coverage (but changinging 12x24" t5's would be a pain).

Anyway, As a long time halide/t5 user I absolutely hated LED. The lack of coverage, weird spectrums, initial cost, forever changing models resulting in low resale value), and overall lack of result kept me away. For the last few months I've been running the G4 xr30 pros and the results have been great. Comparable color to halide, and good coral growth. The coverage is very good, I don't notice a dico effect. The only downfall is that you'll need 6 of these fixtures to cover your tank for SPS. Very expensive startup.....

You hit the nail on the head. On larger tanks to get the best blending, especially with the puck style, it takes more LED fixtures.

 

[mcarroll]

You should discuss this with @mcarroll. He's got some interesting takes on it!

T5 and halide are both great at growing corals, so I don't think anyone's crazy for thinking about T5+halide.

Unless they're doing it because they're avoiding LED's.

That would be silly because it would be a decision based on bad information (there's "something" wrong with LED) rather than being based on selecting the lights you want based on normal criteria like how the corals look or grow, power and heat concerns, bulb replacement costs, etc.

Of course T5 and halide work....if someone needs proof of that, they simply haven't looked around.

But the same can be said of LED's – of course they work. There's little need for the FUD that still gets perpetuated – if you need proof, just look around at all the LED tanks out there.

Some folks may not like LED, and some folks may not understand how to use them – but it's not the LED's fault. There are plenty of folks who don't like/don't know how to use halides or T5's either. Widespread usage of inexpensive lux meters would eliminate almost 100% of the problems folks have with all three types of lighting, IMO. What's really silly is holding out for a PAR meter if you can't afford one. $10-$15 isn't much, so start with a lux meter and upgrade when you are able.

The amount of hype surrounding reef lighting also makes it very difficult for a newb to make a decision based on pragmatic information.

I made a related post about "buyer's remorse" last summer in the Can't decide whether to abandon LEDs thread that was pretty well-received. Good thread overall too!

 

[AllSignsPointToFish]

T5 and halide are both great at growing corals, so I don't think anyone's crazy for thinking about T5+halide.

Unless they're doing it because they're avoiding LED's.

That would be silly because it would be a decision based on bad information (there's "something" wrong with LED) rather than being based on selecting the lights you want based on normal criteria like how the corals look or grow, power and heat concerns, bulb replacement costs, etc.

Of course T5 and halide work....if someone needs proof of that, they simply haven't looked around.

But the same can be said of LED's – of course they work. There's little need for the FUD that still gets perpetuated – if you need proof, just look around at all the LED tanks out there.

Some folks may not like LED, and some folks may not understand how to use them – but it's not the LED's fault. There are plenty of folks who don't like/don't know how to use halides or T5's either. Widespread usage of inexpensive lux meters would eliminate almost 100% of the problems folks have with all three types of lighting, IMO. What's really silly is holding out for a PAR meter if you can't afford one. $10-$15 isn't much, so start with a lux meter and upgrade when you are able.

The amount of hype surrounding reef lighting also makes it very difficult for a newb to make a decision based on pragmatic information.

I made a related post about "buyer's remorse" last summer in the Can't decide whether to abandon LEDs thread that was pretty well-received. Good thread overall too!

What lux meters would you recommend?

 

[mcarroll]

I use a really basic "LX-1010B" that you can run a search for and find at most online retail outlets....but there are many similar models. Most or even all of them should work if another one looked more interesting. @saltyfilmfolks has the red one that has some minor data logging features and it works well too. (I'm not sure if he has a use for the data logging, so maybe he'll chime in...I think he just happened to pick that one like I just happened to pick the 1010B.) Folks have even put them in ziplock baggies for underwater readings.....I've just used it for surface measurements and that seems to be enough to get the job done. You can find a lot of old threads where we discuss and use lux meters under the #lux tag.

Also, here's a blog post I made about it:
Beginner’s Lux

 

[AllSignsPointToFish]

I use a really basic "LX-1010B" that you can run a search for and find at most online retail outlets....but there are many similar models. Most or even all of them should work if another one looked more interesting. @saltyfilmfolks has the red one that has some minor data logging features and it works well too. (I'm not sure if he has a use for the data logging, so maybe he'll chime in...I think he just happened to pick that one like I just happened to pick the 1010B.) Folks have even put them in ziplock baggies for underwater readings.....I've just used it for surface measurements and that seems to be enough to get the job done. You can find a lot of old threads where we discuss and use lux meters under the #lux tag.

Also, here's a blog post I made about it:
Beginner’s Lux

Gotcha. I was curious how you were using it underwater! What lux readings do you get at the surface of the water?

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I never log actually. The only thing I would look for is the max lux. A 50,000 lux meter will limit you if your using high light. And also stop you from playing around outside in the sun (which I highly reccomend). So I do reccomend a 100,000 to 200,000 Lux model.

Milwaukee makes a submersible sensor. $75 or so. There may be others but I haven't found one yet.

 

[Bruce Burnett]

T5 and halide are both great at growing corals, so I don't think anyone's crazy for thinking about T5+halide.

Unless they're doing it because they're avoiding LED's.

That would be silly because it would be a decision based on bad information (there's "something" wrong with LED) rather than being based on selecting the lights you want based on normal criteria like how the corals look or grow, power and heat concerns, bulb replacement costs, etc.

Of course T5 and halide work....if someone needs proof of that, they simply haven't looked around.

But the same can be said of LED's – of course they work. There's little need for the FUD that still gets perpetuated – if you need proof, just look around at all the LED tanks out there.

Some folks may not like LED, and some folks may not understand how to use them – but it's not the LED's fault. There are plenty of folks who don't like/don't know how to use halides or T5's either. Widespread usage of inexpensive lux meters would eliminate almost 100% of the problems folks have with all three types of lighting, IMO. What's really silly is holding out for a PAR meter if you can't afford one. $10-$15 isn't much, so start with a lux meter and upgrade when you are able.

The amount of hype surrounding reef lighting also makes it very difficult for a newb to make a decision based on pragmatic information.

I made a related post about "buyer's remorse" last summer in the Can't decide whether to abandon LEDs thread that was pretty well-received. Good thread overall too!

You and Dana have made me decide to buy a lux meter. I am running 2 Orphek Atlantik Ver 2.1b on my tank 72x30x27 tall. I would love a par meter but can not justify the cost for one time use. I never thought about going back to MH and I have a new fixture with 3-250 watt HQI halide and 8-T5 that has never been out of box. I purchased years ago for new build and then decided to go LED.

 

[MichaelsReef]

I am running all 3 on my 300 gallon tank. I began this hobby with T5's then AI SOL blues, then on to Hydra 52's, then Hydra 52's with T5's. Although I do love LED technology, I decided to try something different with my new tank as there was always some colors I could not achieve. I went with (4) Radium 20k 250 watt bulbs on the new setup with (4) supplemental T5's and reefbrite LEDs for moonlight. I absolutely love the MH as my fish and corals never looked so brightly colored and the intensity of the light is insane. Because I mounted my Lights so High in my Canopy (14" off the water line), I was not getting the PAR I wanted to achieve. After seeing the new EchoTech Radion Pros, I decided to mount 3 of them in between my Halides. Now I have the best of all worlds. I know this overkill, but I really liked the affect that everything has. If you were to limit it to 2 different lights, and you can afford it, I would go with Halides and Led's. Just my two cents though.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I am running all 3 on my 300 gallon tank. I began this hobby with T5's then AI SOL blues, then on to Hydra 52's, then Hydra 52's with T5's. Although I do love LED technology, I decided to try something different with my new tank as there was always some colors I could not achieve. I went with (4) Radium 20k 250 watt bulbs on the new setup with (4) supplemental T5's and reefbrite LEDs for moonlight. I absolutely love the MH as my fish and corals never looked so brightly colored and the intensity of the light is insane. Because I mounted my Lights so High in my Canopy (14" off the water line), I was not getting the PAR I wanted to achieve. After seeing the new EchoTech Radion Pros, I decided to mount 3 of them in between my Halides. Now I have the best of all worlds. I know this overkill, but I really liked the affect that everything has. If you were to limit it to 2 different lights, and you can afford it, I would go with Halides and Led's. Just my two cents though.

Oooooh. Halides and led. Mmmm

Whit what we know about par and DLI(photoperied) it would be really easy to the the par at the top of the tank a little high (300,400)and then just use the MH for like fourth six hours at an additional 400 par or so. I think a balance could def be struck there.
Save heat power & bulbs.
21st century Reefing is prettty cool.

 

[Bruce Burnett]

I never log actually. The only thing I would look for is the max lux. A 50,000 lux meter will limit you if your using high light. And also stop you from playing around outside in the sun (which I highly reccomend). So I do reccomend a 100,000 to 200,000 Lux model.

Milwaukee makes a submersible sensor. $75 or so. There may be others but I haven't found one yet.

which one do you use on your tank

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

which one do you use on your tank

I bought the red one from amazon. But I have $$$ pro meters as well.
(And 60 other FC meters I could use too. )
But I like the cheap one for salt water boxes.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/lighting-upgrade-with-a-lux-meter-saltyfilmfolks.248417/

 

[Bruce Burnett]

I bought the red one from amazon. But I have $$$ pro meters as well.
(And 60 other FC meters I could use too. )
But I like the cheap one for salt water boxes.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/lighting-upgrade-with-a-lux-meter-saltyfilmfolks.248417/

Yes I figured you had some expensive ones for photos.
What do you think of this one not real expensive but sensor is separate.
https://www.amazon.com/Dr-Meter-LX1...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=A5MHGS0BMAGJGQZH1ZSD

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Yes I figured you had some expensive ones for photos.
What do you think of this one not real expensive but sensor is separate.
https://www.amazon.com/Dr-Meter-LX1...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=A5MHGS0BMAGJGQZH1ZSD

Should be fine. Mine in the link was $15.

Less $$ to drop. Lol. Freaks me out how so many people want to use their phone.

 

[ReefLEDLights]

It's hard to beat the look of a 400w radium with supplement T5's. Yes you will have a ton of heat but the growth and color will be awesome giving the proper nutrient balance. In this route I would suggest a 72" giesemann spectra, although I think 3x24" spectras mounted adjacent would give better coverage (but changinging 12x24" t5's would be a pain).

Anyway, As a long time halide/t5 user I absolutely hated LED. The lack of coverage, weird spectrums, initial cost, forever changing models resulting in low resale value), and overall lack of result kept me away. Not to mention poor results with Radion g2. For the last few months I've been running the G4 xr30 pros and the results have been great. Comparable color to halide, and good coral growth. The coverage is very good, I don't notice a dico effect. The only downfall is that you'll need 6 of these fixtures to cover your tank for SPS. Very expensive startup.....

I totally agree on the great look of the 400 watt Radium with T5. Back in the Day I ran 3 with 8 110watt VHOs. This took a 30 amp circuit just for the lights and then the Chiller was extra and on top of that the Home AC every time the Chiller heated the Room and then it was over $400 every year for bulb replacement...

Not all LEDs are the same, some do give a goofy disco effect others give a well blended shimmer. There are a lot of different factors into obtaining a shimmer without the disco effect.

Overall I've seen about $150 a month in electrical savings on my 570 gal going all LED. I'll never go back...

Most LEDs like the Radions and AIs are are 250 watt MH Replacement. Make sure use a PAR meter to achieve the right abount of light. I like to see at least 200 PAR on the sand bed.

One thing a Quality LED like the XTC with do a MH fixture will not, is give you a natural sunrise and sunset along with the ability to tune the looks. This is a lot easier than trying different combinations of T5 bulbs to get the look you like best.

Bill

 

[Bruce Burnett]

Should be fine. Mine in the link was $15.

Less $$ to drop. Lol. Freaks me out how so many people want to use their phone.

Well I tried a couple of different apps on cell phone and they are not even good enough to use.
I figured the one includes a storage case and rubber case for meter. Still a long ways from an Apogee full spectrum par meter.

 

[Bruce Burnett]

I totally agree on the great look of the 400 watt Radium with T5. Back in the Day I ran 3 with 8 110watt VHOs. This took a 30 amp circuit just for the lights and then the Chiller was extra and on top of that the Home AC every time the Chiller heated the Room and then it was over $400 every year for bulb replacement...

Not all LEDs are the same, some do give a goofy disco effect others give a well blended shimmer. There are a lot of different factors into obtaining a shimmer without the disco effect.

Overall I've seen about $150 a month in electrical savings on my 570 gal going all LED. I'll never go back...

Most LEDs like the Radions and AIs are are 250 watt MH Replacement. Make sure use a PAR meter to achieve the right amount of light. I like to see at least 200 PAR on the sand bed.

One thing a Quality LED like the XTC with do a MH fixture will not, is give you a natural sunrise and sunset along with the ability to tune the looks. This is a lot easier than trying different combinations of T5 bulbs to get the look you like best.

Bill

A savings on just electrical of $150 a month is nothing to sneeze at now add bulb cost. Most outlets are on a 15 amp circuit, which is really only large enough for a light fixture of around 1500 watts max or 3-250 watt MH with T5s, You don't want your breaker at max current on a continuous basis. The control you can have on LED compared to T5 or MH means a lot and if the programing is wifi and builtin then less outlets and or timers required. Maybe someday I will own an all in one controller more for the notification not just for the control.

 

[mcarroll]

You and Dana have made me decide to buy a lux meter. I am running 2 Orphek Atlantik Ver 2.1b on my tank 72x30x27 tall. I would love a par meter but can not justify the cost for one time use. I never thought about going back to MH and I have a new fixture with 3-250 watt HQI halide and 8-T5 that has never been out of box. I purchased years ago for new build and then decided to go LED.

Dana, by way of his classic Advanced Aquarist articles, is the one who convinced me.

Before that – before toasting a tank full of stony corals when I switched to LED – thanks to all the the PAR-bias I ran into while reading, I never even thought about using a lux meter on the tank. ;Facepalm;Facepalm;Facepalm I was an instant advocate. ;Shifty;Smuggrin;Singing