Am I Crazy?

[TomNY7810]

Hello Everyone....long time lurker, first time poster here.

I've wanted to do a reef tank for the last 10 years and couldn't wait to move out of my small apt and buy a house that would provide me with the space. Last year I was fortunate enough to make that happen and naturally the itch to set up a tank was become unbearable...it's time to act! I've done a fair amount of research and reading on this awesome website and came to the conclusion that for my first reef tank I'd do a 65 gallon FOWLR (adding some corals down the line) without a sump (mainly for budgetary/space restrictions).

I was disappointed to visit a highly regarded LFS only to have the people I spoke with completely dismiss the idea of no sump. They basically told me it couldn't be done. I've read enough to know that it absolutely CAN be done, and started to wonder if maybe these guys were just trying to sell more equipment. When I then asked if they stock tanks that I could look at (finding where to buy a tank and stand is also I'm struggling with mightily) they simply googled red sea reefer and showed me the computer...again disappointed.

Is there something about not having a sump as a beginner that would make things especially difficult? Is it the size? Anyone have experience with that kind of tank to start in the hobby? Any advice anyone has to offer would be greatly appreciated!

Tom

 

[Silent]

Welcome to R2R

 

[Terri Caton]

Glad you joined us! There is nothing wrong with not having a sump. It can be a little more challenging to keep nutrients in control but that can literally be done with water changes. And those won't be difficult with a 65 gal. You might want a protein skimmer at some point. You can get one that attached to the tank. Or if you get an all-in-one tank it can fit in the back.

Never trust someone who is trying to sell you something. And go to a different LFS

 

[AllSignsPointToFish]

First of all, welcome!

Second, the sump adds water volume to the system which means parameters can be more stable. It also provides a convenient location for mixing in additives that may have detrimental effects if added directly to the main tank.

You could make your own sump fairly cheaply like I did. No need to buy an expensive sump unless the footprint is critical.

 

[ZipAdeeZoa]

I see no benefit to answering your question...

Jokes aside you're absolutely right that a sump is not required to be successful however there are some advantages that shouldn't be dismissed.

Increased water volume puts dilution more in your favour
Increased space to hold equipment and keep it out of site
Place to put rogue fish or crabs either permanently or just until you can figure out what you want to do with them.

All in one tanks might be something you could look into, these have small back chamber to hide the gear and are typically recommend to people just starting out (my current tank is the fluval evo 13.5 although thats a lot smaller than what your looking for). Red sea does have some nice all in one options but if your on a budget they are very far from required! Maybe try digging around for some sumpless build threads to get some ideas from?

I'm sure you'll find the answers your looking for somewhere on this site- Welcome to R2R!

 

[Gernader]

Welcome to R2R!

It is not REQUIRED to have a sump. It can be done without it, just know you will need to do water changes. I have a 29g reef (all kinds of corals, anemone) with no skimmer, sump, and no dosing! It is definitely possible

 

[andrewkw]

While I would have gone about it in a much nicer way, I would have highly encouraged you to include a sump too. It doesn't have to cost a lot and you could probably almost pay for it by buying cheaper in sump equipment vs hang on the back equipment. You can use a 10 or 20 gallon tank with a 65g as a sump.

You do not need a sump. You can have a great tank without a sump. Any tank that does not have a sump is going to have more eye sores in it. You want to enjoy your tank. Forgetting about all the benefits of a sump for a second having heaters, a skimmer or other hang on the back equipment is going to be distracting.

Giving yourself the best chance to succeed makes it much more likely you will stick with it and enjoy yourself.

 

[Coral Reef Keepers]

Petco has tanks on sale right now, $1.00 per gallon for up to 29 gallon and half off the bigger ones. This is the best deal you can get on a new tank. With that in mind I would go with a 75 instead of the 65. The 75 is a bit deeper and gives more room for fish to swim.

 

[Reefnman2]

Welcome to R2R!

 

[Jon Fishman]

You absolutely can set up a tank without a sump....... I would never do it though.

Even in the process of setting up my reptile tank, I am setting up a sump. A bit more work initially, A LOT LESS long term.

If nothing else, having heaters pumps skimmer filters etc etc out of the viewing area of your tank is worth it

If you have a tank on a stand, you have room for a sump.

I had a 46g bowfront with a canister filter. Heater etc was terrible, but just having a thermometer probe run into the display drove me nuts. Don’t even get me started on HoB skimmer......

 

[WVNed]

A simple observation would be get a sump because you will want one soon anyway.
Yes you can put all the stuff to run a tank inside the tank. It looks bad and is much harder to deal with though. You cant repurpose the HOB stuff either.

 

[Jeto2004]

I think you got all the answers you need! Welcome to R2R!

 

[CasaReefer]

Hi Tommy, Welcome to R2R. Just a couple of suggestions.. First have you looked locally on Craigslist or Let it Go. for a used set up. A lot of times you can find things very cheap on there from people that just want toget rid of there stuff. Second thought would be have you looked into local reef or fish club. Maybe join a local reef club and let people know your new and looking for equipment. You might find that they are willing to give you really good deals on stuff their not using. And a great place for knowledge... Good Luck on your Journey..

 

[BGrand]

No sense in beating the same drum. Obviously as stated above you do not need a sump but they do help. Most importantly:

Welcome Aboard!!!

 

[jace]

Welcome bud!!! It's all in the delivery. I'm sorry to hear that people have dismissed your idea. We really are in a world where dismissal is such a bad word. I went without a sump for years and things worked out fine. Your research and mine verifies this has been and can be done

You can have the best set up and sump and skimmers but if you don't have the dedication your tank will likely struggle.

It's not so much the equipment it's the personal care and attention that will prove your lfs wrong.

 

[WVNed]

A sumpless tank
2 heaters, HOB skimmer,cannister filter flow pumps

A non drilled tank with a hob overflow. Sump is a 20 long tank I glued 2 pieces of glass into to make a return section. ATO, skimmer, heaters are in the sump.

Same tank drilled by me.

Any way you want to do it will work. Notice if I had gone to the final product how much stuff I wouldn't have stored around here that I paid for.

And welcome

 

[Euphyllia97]

Hi! I have kept a 65 gallons All in one system as my first tank. Now I have a 125 with sump. I must say that for me (as I am away from work a couple of days a week) it was more easy to keep the all in one system.

The sump gives more room for equipment like a big skimmer, Media reactor, dosing pumps and some other stuff. However in a 65 gallons the need for this equipment is not even close to the bigger systems.

I could leave my 65 gallons AIO alone for a week without touching it and no harm was done. The salinity would go up just a little bit due to evaporation 1,025 to 1,026.

The problem I have in my 125 gallon with sump is that when I don’t have the time my ATO will be empty in 3 days (16 liters). After day 4, Water going into the overflow will be significantly less and therefore all this equipment will not work efficiently anymore. I have experienced this when I was cycling my tank after 1 week of vacation. When I came home I saw that the flow was a lot lower and my temperature dropped to 22 degrees celsius as there wasn’t enough water coming through the overflow past my heaters. (luckily I had nothing in the tank).

My conclusion: If you have time to do some small adjustments and maintenance to the tank every 2 days.I would definitely go for a tank with sump. It needs a lot of monitoring IMO. But if you have a lot of time to put in your tank, you might feel disappointed by the limitations of an all in one.

Considering the easier export of nutrients in a tank with sump or without, I have mixed feelings. It is indeed easier to keep nutrients lower because you can add media reactors and a refugium. However you will also need to keep your sump as clean as possible as it builds up detritus easily. So again it is only valid if you have a lot of time. Keeping an AIO tank made me more aware of the limitations of equipment in my tank and caused me to stock less. I also think there are a lot of better ways you can keep nutrients low with compared to media reactors and big skimmers. (Carbon dosing)

Since I have the system with a sump I kind of plan my life around my tank. Before my tank was more a piece of furniture that needed some good routine maintenance every weekend.

So If you have a busy life or work schedule the all in one is the way to go if you ask me.

Good luck!

 

[TomNY7810]

Thank you to everyone for the quick responses and input....this community is great!

 

[BeejReef]

I think you made a very wise choice coming on here and casting around for opinions before making a purchase at an LFS you didn't have a great feeling about.

Non sump can absolutely be done. I can't help but think that you're proceeding on a false assumption though.... that no sump is cheaper. A sumped system will cost a touch more to set up, but will almost certainly cost less (quite a bit less) to operate. Way easier as well.

All that smallish hob stuff isn't cheap either. Usually costs 70% as much as the more standard sized equivalents that are often 200% more effective and reliable.