Americans vs Europeans

From my understanding most European reefers keep what they like, what looks good to them and grow colonies, which makes a tank look full. Americans do buy a ton of frags with names that aren't scientific and pepper them everywhere. Mostly collecting and following fad's.

Nothing wrong with either way.

I tend to be more European with my tanks.
 
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I can’t speak for the American vs European tank, live stock or overall appearance. I will say that most tanks I see on here are in the states, and the majority of them seem like a collection of “fire” not a slice of the ocean. I take the natural approach, it’s what I prefer. I don’t care about non scientific names, what’s hot or trendy. I buy what I like, and I attempt to make my reef look like a chunk of wild ocean reef. That is all.
 
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I tend to favor fewer, larger colonies. So I guess I fall under a more European style of reefing. I tend to choose corals more for growth pattern and color contrast to what's already in the tank as opposed to what's new or trending.

Having said that, I'm saving/making room for additions that I intend to get at Reefapalooza Chicago in October if it's still going to happen. ;)
 
Hello, I'm from Italy.
When I read or see about American's tank, I think we have a different philosophy about reef tank. We don't use siphorax or other biological media, the ATS is not common in our tank. I think we are years behind yours... management method? (Can I use these words?)

the equipment is pretty the same.

I watch a lot of American's video on youtube, it seems they (in the video) didn't wait for the evolution of the tank, they put everything inside as fast as they can so they can admire the work at the end of the day.
I think one of the best parts is the natural growth of the "tank", so I can decide what kind of coral I can put inside.
 
one of the things I read into this forum and I'm not capable to understand is this:
a user has live rock plenty of algae, cyanobacteria, or other bad stuff. A lot of people suggest to put the rock in O2H2 or using bleach to kill everything.

I have a lot of live roks form an old tank, so I put them in a tank with darkness, skimmer, high flow and good bacteria, I'm waiting like a month or two ant the live rocks are perfect for my new tank!
 
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As a Eueropean here are my thoughts:

1, We don't have as large of a coral selection available in stores as you guys have. There are no huge coral shops that will ship EU wide overnight either. Same for fish, cuc, etc.
2, We don't have 1/10 the equipment and magic potions / meds available you guys have. Yeah we have Tunze, Eheim, GHL and Royal Exclusive, but we don't have Apex, Ecotech, AI, Brightwell, etc. etc. Red Sea support is also a bag of crap here. Also most EU made products are ridiculously overpriced (GHL, RE, I'm looking at you).

We can get most of the technical stuff ofcourse you guys can, but it's not as simple as swinging by the LFS, and pulling a decent skimmer, doser, controller or whatnot off the shelf. You have to order it & wait weeks to get it. Then warranty also sucks here most of the times. It's more of a seller protected type of market than a "customer is always right" one.

But the hard part really is livestock transportation laws. For example in my country it is illegal to send livestock over post or a carrier. Best I can do is go down to my LFS, tell them I want a specific kind of coral/fish, then wait months and maybe I'll get it. They never really stock up on anything fancy.
 
I'm in Ireland, my LFS gets regular coral shipments but nver anything very exciting. I'd love to go to one of the american stores. However I see lots of pictures of tanks here with frags and frag plugs all over the place, its some thing I can't stand the look of.
 
As a Eueropean here are my thoughts:

1, We don't have as large of a coral selection available in stores as you guys have. There are no huge coral shops that will ship EU wide overnight either. Same for fish, cuc, etc.
2, We don't have 1/10 the equipment and magic potions / meds available you guys have. Yeah we have Tunze, Eheim, GHL and Royal Exclusive, but we don't have Apex, Ecotech, AI, Brightwell, etc. etc. Red Sea support is also a bag of **** here. Also most EU made products are ridiculously overpriced (GHL, RE, I'm looking at you).

We can get most of the technical stuff ofcourse you guys can, but it's not as simple as swinging by the LFS, and pulling a decent skimmer, doser, controller or whatnot off the shelf. You have to order it & wait weeks to get it. Then warranty also sucks here most of the times. It's more of a seller protected type of market than a "customer is always right" one.

But the hard part really is livestock transportation laws. For example in my country it is illegal to send livestock over post or a carrier. Best I can do is go down to my LFS, tell them I want a specific kind of coral/fish, then wait months and maybe I'll get it. They never really stock up on anything fancy.
Sounds like my Lfs in the us.
 
Don't think its about equipment or availability (Whitecorals ship across Europe AFAIK, use them all the time. UPS fast shipment). Equipment is also available. Even my LFS has all the corals I'll ever need plus can get every special order on equipment if not in stock. Cost is higher due to higher sales tax though. Its also GHL land so less APEX (will not buy an Apex here until they have a proper 220v version of the power strip).

I agree with the frag theory however. What I find I rarely see in Europe is frag racks inside the DT. Not a fan of it either. The DT is to show off your stuff IMHO. Also not a fan of frags sitting on plugs glued to the rocks. Doesn't mean we don't do it, but perhaps post less pictures of that stage. But there's no right way here.

Overall I think there's little difference to the success. I like this forum much better than the EU ones however.
 
Man, so many thoughts, and not sure how to put them all into words. Reefkeeping in the USA used to be a lot more like how the OP describes Euro reefkeeping. There was less collector-itis and more reef building. While I totally respect that things change and feel happy that people get joy out of pokeman card collecting tanks, I'm still in the reef building camp.

I think something that has been lost on a lot of recent reefkeepers is that modern reefkeeping was essentially founded in Europe. Anyone who kept marine aquaria in the late 80's and 90's remembers pre-internet reefkeeping. Information spread much more slowly, through monthly publications and books. I was just a middle schooler, but I remember that the Berlin method was highly controversial when it was proposed to American reefkeepers as an alternative to our wet-dry systems. There were some heated debates in the magazines. You see, Berlin hobbyists figured out that letting the live rock and corals manage nutrients was better than a highly aerobic nitrate factory like a wet-dry filter. It's crazy today to think that running a reef with just live rock, protein skimmer, and carbon seemed controversial back then.

Prior to that, a Swiss reefkeeper named Peter Wilkens popularized the idea that we need to replenish Calcium and Alkalinity to grow stony corals more effectively. There's a reason we still refer to it as "Kalkwasser". He also popularized the use of carbon. His book, The Saltwater Aquarium for Tropical Marine Invertebrates, was a game changer.

Kalk stirrers are also called "Nilsen Reactors", thanks to Norwegian Alf Jacob Nilsen. He and Fossa wrote a series of books, called The Modern Coral Reef Aquarium. Those books blew my mind. And if you ever read it, you'll notice there's a big emphasis on the ecosystem and building a reef, versus collecting frags. This hobby came into it's own at the same time I grew from a teen into an adult. So I have a nostalgic sentiment towards the hobby.

Calcium Reactor? They used to be called Löbbecke Reactors, referring to the Löbbecke Museum in Dusseldorf. Someone named Hebbinghaus first described the design in 1994.

Back in the day, there wasn't much in reef aquarium specific lighting available. The Euro guys figured out that a bulb designed for printing was excellent for growing corals and supplementing the full spectrum bulbs available in the hobby. That bulb was the Philips Actinic 03 bulb.

SPS fanatics should give credit to Dietrich Stüber, who had an Acropora hitchhike on some live rock in the 1980's. At the time it was generally believed that Acropora were impossible to keep in captivity. That hitchhiker Acro in Berlin, the Stuber Acropora, was the first documented thriving Acropora in a home aquarium.

Because electricity was cheap in the USA, we used to run these crazy downdraft and beckett skimmers with power hungry pumps, which left the venturi and airstone skimmers in the dust. The Euro folks popularized a more efficient needle-wheel venturi design that is popular today. One of the first popular needle-wheel skimmer brands in the US was called "Euro-Reef"... lol. :)

Anyway, a lot of this hobby that we take for granted is rooted in European reefkeeping. I'd say one of the major historic contributions out of the USA is algal filtration. Turf scrubbers and Refugiums were popularized by Walter Adey from the Smithsonian. And I think much more great stuff has come out of the USA since then. It's great that there's a market for these things now. I love my AI Hydras and my Neptune Apex. And the availability of microfeeds from folks like Reed Mariculture has helped captive breeding.

To this day, I'm not interested in fruit stand tanks and reefs that are "windex" glow in the dark blue. I'm glad those tanks bring people joy, but older grown in tanks are what excite me. I think growing large mature corals demonstrates skill, patience, and dedication. Showing a collection of rare LE frags just demonstrates you can spend money. I also favor R2R threads that dig into the science side and experimental nature of the hobby. Ironically, those threads tend to come from European folks like @Lasse and others. :)
 
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I respectfully disagree. We don’t have first dibs. Just look at the Philips Coral Care.

You are talking about two totally different schools of thought. For example, with planted tanks euros are all about low flow and filter floss. Americans are all about the horsepower and higher flow. Again the grass is not greener on the other side. It’s about finding the balance of what works.

For canister filters and what not Europe has way more. The American market is not easy to break into. They have the same stuff we have, if not more. A lot of Europe’s stuff is made in Europe too. A lot of out stuff is made in China.
I'm talking the the coral not equipment. I've been involved in many conversations where people people from Europe complained about not having access to out selection.
 
This is exactly the point I wanted to touch on. It seems that Americans have that capitalist mindset, that the minute something is fraggable, it's on a plug and sold for the highest price.

I wonder if the Europeans think of it the same way. I'm sure there are Europeans that think that way, but for example in my city, I know more "hobbyist" with frag tanks and less hobbyist with beautiful tanks. I wonder what that ratio is for them?
What really kills me that dealer A could have a piece for sale, using the common name, at a really good price... Dealer B has the same piece with a designer name at a crazy higher price and sells it before store A. Let's not even get into all the photoshop and light trickery that goes on to fool the buyer.
 
I think that the main differences - in general scale - not on the individual scale - is that we Europan have a culture to think of the reefing more as biological systems not as individual **** happens things . When something happens - we try to organize the solution in systems. The Berlin system, the zeovit system, Triton system and so on. That´s means that if there is an solution to one more or less specific issue - we tend to skip the 100 % most effective solutions because some of them can pulverize the whole system. Therefore we tend to work more according to biology and stable total systems.

IMO - there is a believe among many US aquarists - but even among many in Europe - that every issue you have had to be treated in an individual way and 100 % effective. Hairy algae - kill it, oops cyanobacteria - kill it, oops dino, kill it, oops white spot - kill it and when lower the phosphate - it fix everything.....:D

I realized now - under the current pandemic that both me, Paul_B and others have for many years practice the theories about herd immunity without knowing it - but is a system thinking too.

With other words - we mainly developing biological system and holistic thinking - you develop technical, chemical individual solutions to individual issues. Yes - I generalize and provoke but if anyone combine these two skills of European and US reefers - it will beat everything:D

Sincerely Lasse
 
As a European reefer, I also see some differences. The biggest by far is the lack of the tipical frags with 600$ price tag and a fancy name. While they exist online (one or two online shops) mostly just sell based on species. Fauna Marin and white corals are good examples. Fauna Marin even has their on breeding and budget section.

Another topic I come about the other day is the live sales. Don't think we have them in this side of the pond. Having said that there was a topic about this the other day and someone mentioned that wwc had something like 100 frags available on their website. Both the websites above have several hundreds....

Circling back to the 600$ frags. This is a personal opinion only, but I would use that to fill the entire tank with frags and colonies from the lfs

Don't think there is an proper way to do it. Up to the individual
 
Dont get me wrong i love my country but is it just me or do we suck at reefing compared to Europeans when i look at our tanks (not mine) i see frag tanks on liverock ...10000 frag plugs of rare highlighter looking coral (scolly garden?) when european tanks seem like they actually try to capture the beauty of the reef over the harboring of rare coral ...just a thought wish i saw more coral in tanks than i did wooden plugs they treat it more like an art than a collection

Always remember, even if your passport says you are american, you are still allowed to go to your lfs and buy only a few frags (or small colonies if they have) and put only a few frags and let them grow to full size colonies ;):D You are allowed to do a "European style" tank if that is what you like ;)

(Sorry, couldn't help myself)
 
Always remember, even if your passport says you are american, you are still allowed to go to your lfs and buy only a few frags (or small colonies if they have) and put only a few frags and let them grow to full size colonies ;):D You are allowed to do a "European style" tank if that is what you like ;)

(Sorry, couldn't help myself)

If you go to many of the American reefkeeping sites and look back at "Tank of the Months" from a decade or so ago, you will see some great looking grown in tanks that predate the LE frag live sale madness. :-)

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EU has always been ahead in the reefing hobby.. Most of the innovation started there on methods we use.
Been in the reef hobby over 30 years and especially in the early days allot of the authors were European and allot of the methods used were developed there and brought here by people like Julian Sprung.
Lots of the innovative companies are there like Tunze, Ehiem, Giesemann, Deltec, etc.
Where do most of our supplements come from? Aquaforest, Zeovit, Tropic Marin etc.

Does not mean there are not any good tanks here in the States.
Lately allot more of the reef aquariums in the States look like frag tanks and clutter. To much on the Sand or bottom of the tank..Little ittybitty corals. Personally fewer large colonies is what I like. Something a little more natural.. Keep frags in a frag tank.
 

IF YOU HAD TO TAKE A REEFING EXAM, WOULD YOU PASS?

  • Yes!

    Votes: 32 45.7%
  • Not yet, but I have one that I want to buy in mind!

    Votes: 9 12.9%
  • No.

    Votes: 26 37.1%
  • Other (please explain).

    Votes: 3 4.3%

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