Ammonia 5ppm/ cycle

[coralcoralcoral10]

Hello I recently did a tank transfer from a 46 gallon tank to a 144 gallon tank. After 1 week ammonia was at a 1ppm now at a 5ppm. Dosing with prime and microbacter. Lost some coral. Anyone have any idea how long a typical tank transfer cycle can last. The 46 gallon was only 4 months old. Nitrites are .7. Everything else was testing fine. Thanks. Ooooo NTS!!!!!!

 

[blaxsun]

A few weeks. You can always look at some insta-cycle bacteria like Bio-Spora or Dr. Timms. Any fish or inverts in the tank?

 

[Jivatma]

How much was transfered over? What was new in bigger tank?

 

[fachatga]

Guess you didn’t have enough bacteria on the rocks you moved over for the larger tank. Putting another starter bacteria bottle in probably would have started the cycle of the new rock faster. Did you add anything to the tank when you moved? How did you do the transfer?

 

[brandon429]

Prime causes false reads, you don’t have an ammonia issue now it’s resolved. It’s why your report isn’t of dead animals but just a test reading, prime causes false reads. Post a tank pic for proof. There may have been an initial spike for an hour but it’s now all false reads due to prime.

 

[lapin]

If you moved your live rock (did not let it dry out) and did not discard things like bioballs, nitrate bricks ect...then you had enough bacteria. Water volume would not matter unless you added a bunch of fish.
Prime only binds ammonia for 48 hours then its released back into the water. The coral death was prob more of a lighting and water movement issue, if all readings were exactly the same in the old and new tank.

 

[coralcoralcoral10]

I added all my live rock. It was a 46 gallon to a 144. Once completed. A half bottle of the bigger micro Bacter was added. I also added all
Of my water. After a 60% water change still the same reading. Ammonia now 4.5 ppm and nitrates .7. Everyrthing else is fine. Salinity at 1.025. Ph-8. The rest was fine just don’t remember exact numbers.

 

[coralcoralcoral10]

Coral isn’t doing well but fish seem active. No red gills no fatigue. I have cut food in half. I am still dosing with micro Bacter and prime. Can you overdose micro Bacter? Thank you all for the reply’s. Still so new and frustrated

 

[coralcoralcoral10]

A few weeks. You can always look at some insta-cycle bacteria like Bio-Spora or Dr. Timms. Any fish or inverts in the tank?

Yes 3 shrimp. Snails. 3 slugs. Hermits. 8 fish. All fine. Haven’t lost anything other than like all my coral

 

[coralcoralcoral10]

Guess you didn’t have enough bacteria on the rocks you moved over for the larger tank. Putting another starter bacteria bottle in probably would have started the cycle of the new rock faster. Did you add anything to the tank when you moved? How did you do the transfer?

Yes so after the first week I added 2 fish and 3 coral. Paremeters were fine except a 1ppm
Ammonia. Before adding the fish I was dosing with Ammo lock a bit to try and nullify the ammonia. Then after that addition a week later 5ppm
Ammonia tested at home and LFS. Then completed a 60% water change and siphoned the gravel. No fish death just like all
My Coral. No invert death. Did lose a small starfish but I attribute it to lack of food it’s all new sand. Not live. 2 weeks old. A bigger star fish didn’t make the transfer but was removed 8 days ago and was in the tank for a bit rotting but not fully decomposed when removed. Ammonia still sky high and Nitrites. I love my fish I want them to be ok. This hobby is amazing but wow a lot.

 

[lapin]

added all my live rock. It was a 46 gallon to a 144. Once completed. A half bottle of the bigger micro Bacter was added. I also added all
Of my water. After a 60% water change still the same reading. Ammonia now 4.5 ppm and nitrates .7. Everyrthing else is fine. Salinity at 1.025. Ph-8. The rest was fine just don’t remember exact numbers.

If you had an ammonia problem your fish would have been dead in hours. Because you added water (46 gallon to 144 gallon) should not make any difference in bacteria count. If the rock can process all the waste in a 46 and you moved it over and added nothing new, the rock can process the same amount of waste in your 144.
Adding more bacteria will not improve the count contained in your live rock.
Adding prime and ammo lock will only starve your bacteria causing the count to be reduced.
Think of a dam on a river that stops all the water for a few days then releases it all at once.
Now if the rock dried out then you will have an issue.

 

[coralcoralcoral10]

The LFS told me to keep dosing but all my coral isn’t doing well but all fish and inverts and slugs are fine. They did the transfer for me the rock was always in water then new water no time for it to dry out. What could be causing such high readings?? What should i do to save coral!? Fish are eating behavior hasn’t changed since ammonia spike.

 

[coralcoralcoral10]

What would u do if all the coral
Is closed and your ammonia is reading 5 and nitrites 7 without fish death?

 

[lapin]

It could be an Alk or Lighting or Flow issue. I assume all of these have changed.

 

[brandon429]

it is 100% not an ammonia issue nor nitrite. we can scan the forums and find several angry corals posts in years old tanks, angry corals happen.

hunt elsewhere, its not these two variables. if that was my reef, it would have all new water today matching temp and salinity and there'd be no headache. I realize others will not do that, sixteen other ways will be chosen instead. also at no time would I add unprepped fish from a pet store, because them catching disease and not eating rises to about 80% likely and that confounds other troubleshooting issues for the corals.

so in summary I'd never input untreated fish, would do a full water change matching temp and salinity, never test for nitrite or ammonia again on this tank, never dose prime again or bottle bac to it. I'd do fully opposite of all current moves on this tank. I know everyone gives different advice, it makes it hard to choose / aware.

the water column is being chemically souped with additives and bacteria floating in suspension with no where to attach, the bioloading of your water is increasing, totally opposite of what Id do which is instate totally clean water and throw out those two test kits you have, ammonia and nitrite, they'll mislead you into harmful actions.

 

[brandon429]

we also need some data for our tank transfer thread, to find what started the initial concern


the sand transfer wasn't covered that I read here, how was sand moved to the new tank? or was old sand tossed, this is all new sand here in the new tank?

just saw the dead star fish left rotting in the tank, agreed that's a loading but not 5 ppm worth its just nominal loading that reef tanks can process. all reef tanks have digested some life, the speedbump is absorbed by the excess surface area in about an hour or so total, per any seneye thread.

thats one reason I would do the water change, it fixes all stated and unstated variables. if that's old sand from the old tank then the new water would be poured in slowly over a rock peak to not kick up dangerous waste again. the rotting star is possible in any transfer job/physical stress and can easily make those non digital kits spike to the sky incorrectly. that starts to clarify your issue much better knowing that rotting star was in the tank a while.

dont add a new star fish to the new tank/they'll starve soon after.

 

[coralcoralcoral10]

it is 100% not an ammonia issue nor nitrite. we can scan the forums and find several angry corals posts in years old tanks, angry corals happen.

hunt elsewhere, its not these two variables. if that was my reef, it would have all new water today matching temp and salinity and there'd be no headache. I realize others will not do that, sixteen other ways will be chosen instead. also at no time would I add unprepped fish from a pet store, because them catching disease and not eating rises to about 80% likely and that confounds other troubleshooting issues for the corals.

so in summary I'd never input untreated fish, would do a full water change matching temp and salinity, never test for nitrite or ammonia again on this tank, never dose prime again or bottle bac to it. I'd do fully opposite of all current moves on this tank. I know everyone gives different advice, it makes it hard to choose / aware.

the water column is being chemically souped with additives and bacteria floating in suspension with no where to attach, the bioloading of your water is increasing, totally opposite of what Id do which is instate totally clean water and throw out those two test kits you have, ammonia and nitrite, they'll mislead you into harmful actions.

Thank you. I did a 60% water change Saturday. No change in ammonia. My alk is good. As of reading on Saturday. It’s not so simple for me to do 100-%. Water change. I don’t have an rodi I buy ro water. My flow consists of 4 neros. 2 3s. 2 5s. 3s are at 70% with semi high variable. 5s at 65% with semi high variables all on reef modes. I just changed them today all up 5%. Lighting is 4 ai primes at 70,70,80,80,3,3,3,3,16. Thank you for all your help. It’s hard to figure out the exact cause of these corals not making it. PH is 8. I don’t feed them anything other than AB+ occasionally. Also there are 2 LFS the one I use now is amazing. I don’t believe their fish is a problem at all very knowledgeable but the more local one I don’t trust but haven’t added anything from them in 2 months besides 1 coral. Any changes you would make?

 

[coralcoralcoral10]

it is 100% not an ammonia issue nor nitrite. we can scan the forums and find several angry corals posts in years old tanks, angry corals happen.

hunt elsewhere, its not these two variables. if that was my reef, it would have all new water today matching temp and salinity and there'd be no headache. I realize others will not do that, sixteen other ways will be chosen instead. also at no time would I add unprepped fish from a pet store, because them catching disease and not eating rises to about 80% likely and that confounds other troubleshooting issues for the corals.

so in summary I'd never input untreated fish, would do a full water change matching temp and salinity, never test for nitrite or ammonia again on this tank, never dose prime again or bottle bac to it. I'd do fully opposite of all current moves on this tank. I know everyone gives different advice, it makes it hard to choose / aware.

the water column is being chemically souped with additives and bacteria floating in suspension with no where to attach, the bioloading of your water is increasing, totally opposite of what Id do which is instate totally clean water and throw out those two test kits you have, ammonia and nitrite, they'll mislead you into harmful actions.

How do u know if they are untreated fish?

 

[coralcoralcoral10]

Thank you I won’t I didn’t realize that. So the sand is new only 2 1/2 weeks old. 60% water change did nothing. The starfish was removed a week and a half ago. A torch and a trumpet coral and another big coral died. All removed 5 days ago. They weren’t really rotting in the tank. Though at first sign of no return they were removed. I tested my water again tonight and it’s already 5ppm Ammonia. .7 nitrite. Everything in the tank is accounted for and Alive. Water is clear no fish death. I’m so confused. I’m still adding prime and microbacter daily. I really don’t want to lose these fish. All other small coral is closed but not dead but they all don’t look good. In a matter of a week and a half I went from a semi vibrant tank with a bunch of coral to a ghost town with just fish. Also I cut the feeding down by almost half. I do add a clam on a half shell attached to a rock so my puffer has something to pick on same with the inverts. I don’t want him going after my lettuce slugs. I guess I’m in a NTS cycle. When will it end. Ugh