Ammonia Issue

[jackalexander]

Have you checked the expiration date on your test kit?

it says 04/25 so it should be good, I think it was just a major mistake on my part.

 

[NeonRabbit221B]

Will a 100% water change restart my cycle?

With that much ammonia the cycle will stall anyways. If you are removing the damsel anyways then a 75% will do.

 

[NeonRabbit221B]

it says 04/25 so it should be good, I think it was just a major mistake on my part.

It happens! Lots to learn and this will not be your last "oh crap I did xyx" moment.

 

[jackalexander]

With that much ammonia the cycle will stall anyways. If you are removing the damsel anyways then a 75% will do.

I think i’ll do a 75% change and see how it goes. if It doesn’t work out, will a 25% water change work or will I have to do another 100% wc? I already did a 50% wc and it did nothing, that was a few days ago..

 

[jackalexander]

It happens! Lots to learn and this will not be your last "oh crap I did xyx" moment.

Hopefully nothing this major again though!

 

[NeonRabbit221B]

I think i’ll do a 75% change and see how it goes. if It doesn’t work out, will a 25% water change work or will I have to do another 100% wc? I already did a 50% wc and it did nothing, that was a few days ago..

Its a pretty unstudied topic but from what I understand once ammonia goes above 2 ppm it tends to stall bacterial populations. A 75%+ is advised as you won't bring the ammonia (and nitrate levels in the future) down to good levels with a 25% but you cant do anymore damage at this point. Just make sure the fish is saved.

Also, dumped in a cup of ph buffer in my tank last week so don't get your hopes up on not making mistakes! haha

 

[K7BMG]

It happens! Lots to learn and this will not be your last "oh crap I did xyx" moment.

Agree 100%

Research and understanding will save you, your tank, and your wallet.

Not bashing your LFS but unless its the owner the info you may get from a floor sales person can be way off.
They should have never sold you a fish if they knew your ammonia was that high.

Here on R2R you have an awesome tool to use. Upper right hand corner is the search icon.
Have a question go there.

Click on this link and read the very first post.
Click here

 

[K7BMG]

So do your water change to rid the free floating ammonia in the water column.
Give it 48 hours. Test everything you have a test for and report back.

Before you do something as the question using the search tool.
Say you want to add a fish or coral.
In the search box type in the name of the fish or coral and you will get a lot of information.
Is it compatible, what is its diet, will it eat my corals.

You need to learn about a lot of stuff. You WILL have great success as you have many experts here to help.
I am not on the expert level but have learned to look for them here on R2R.

 

[scabbedwings616]

I’ve done the whole dosing ammonia in a tank and dr Tim’s in other tanks. Once I saw my nitrite and nitrates go up, It went high and I let it do it’s thing. I waited patently and 2 weeks later It tested good. I did the same thing again but It only took 1 week to go down. I knew my tank was cycled and ready to go then. This hobby is about patience and learning. Keep learning and as away. Also consider flow and oxygen exchange to bring it all down. Surface agitation also helps with this as well.

 

[jackalexander]

Its a pretty unstudied topic but from what I understand once ammonia goes above 2 ppm it tends to stall bacterial populations. A 75%+ is advised as you won't bring the ammonia (and nitrate levels in the future) down to good levels with a 25% but you cant do anymore damage at this point. Just make sure the fish is saved.

Also, dumped in a cup of ph buffer in my tank last week so don't get your hopes up on not making mistakes! haha

good to know! thank you for your help & yeah i’m at that early learning stage so i’m trying not to make too many mistakes haha

 

[brandon429]

your cycle isnt stalled. enter your tank in this thread for proof.

How to unstick any seemingly stuck cycle

Updated Cycling Science in Action This is a testless reef tank cycling thread, the only one from any board. If you ever had trouble with reef tank cycling in the past, you won't any longer after working some jobs with us. chances are you are using/about to use a method of reef tank cycling...

www.reef2reef.com

you added too much ammonia, no big deal. biolayer still present, and measurable. change out the water like mentioned on page 1 that was correct.

old cycling science: you must wait months for the wastewater to clear.


new cycling science: the biofilm layer forms anyway, change out the wastewater for new, and begin -or reconfirm ammonia oxidation if you like- nitrate presence confirms nitrification here handily. ten full water changes will not reset your cycle, thats how Dr Reef proofed bottle bac set times in his thread, with 100% water changes and then ammonia re testing.

In mentioning entering the thread above, we mean lets test the start live time. change out water, add something, it lives. not a flippant assessment, you've met the submersion times tested for your strain of bottle bac from Dr Reefs bottle bac thread, and you have nitrate.

 

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

I agree with those who've suggested a water change. I suggest a large WC (100% if possible).

 

[jackalexander]

I agree with those who've suggested a water change. I suggest a large WC (100% if possible).

Do you know if my beneficial bacteria will still be present in the tank after a 100% wc?

 

[schuby]

You should start fresh: 100% WC (as much as possible), test ammonia level, re-dose ammonia (proper dosage for your water volume, taking into account current ammonia level- post WC), and then add Dr Tim's One and Only for saltwater tanks again.

Also, I've read on here that you can't test for nitrate until your nitrite tests zero: you'll get false positive readings.

 

[NinjaTiLL]

I was doing a fishless cycle and recently added a damselfish

The point of a fishless cycle is not to add fish. Also, bacteria will not die from a 100% water change. The bacteria live on surfaces, not in the water column. Just don't let the surfaces go dry for an extended period.

 

[tankstudy]

So I decided to do a fishless cycle using Dr. Tim’s nitrifying bacteria and ammonia. Unfortunately, like an idiot, I dosed 5x more ammonia than I should have. I’m using an API test kit and my ammonia readings have shown 8ppm (the max for the test kit) for days and I’m getting readings of 5ppm nitrites and 40 ppm nitrates. My ammonia has yet to go down even though my bacteria has broken down some ammonia and turned it into nitrites and nitrates. Could I have more than 8ppm ammonia? What should I do?

8 ppm ammonia is the ~ inhibition point for the first set of nitrifying bacteria. Your going to see nitrates and nitrites still appear cause theoretically 8 ppm ammonia isn't going to be even distributed throughout the entire system at all times. Some small pockets here and there will allow some break down of ammonia to nitrite to nitrate.

You also have an issue with too high nitrite. When nitrite goes above 5 ppm, you get the same issue where you get inhibition of the bacteria that consumes nitrite.

Too much initial ammonia is a big issue. I recommend most people to do less than 2 ppm ammonia on the first dosage to avoid issues. You can crank up the amount of ammonia later on after you get the first round of ammonia to zero out but you can't do a heavy round on the start.

If you can see 8 ppm ammonia on the API test kit, you probably have far more ammonia than you think. Generally, you aren't suppose to dose and test still you can see the ammonia on your test kits. Your suppose to use a known concentration, dose it, and observe for nitrite and nitrate appearance. You can calculate going backwards from the amount of nitrate presence to determine how much ammonia you possibly had at the start.

Like others are recommending, doing a water change to dilute the ammonia out will set you back in order.

For your question on if your bacteria will survive a 100% water change, it can if you have substrate and you don't let the substrate come to a complete dry. Just drain your system quickly and refill it back up.

 

[brandon429]

this thread doesnt agree 8 ppm stalls

they directly tested at 8 ppm.

Bacteria in a bottle, Myth or Fact

Call me old school, back in the day we placed a deli shrimp in a tank to kick start the cycle. When tank reached 1.5-2 ppm ammonia we pulled it out and waited sometimes weeks to months for bacteria to colonize and drop ammonia and nitrites down to 0 to make tank safe for livestock. With recent...

www.reef2reef.com

*don’t trust api to correctly report ppm levels, I have threads where 8 ppm was stated by the tester but the reef was matured and running fine. Stated 8 ppm isn’t 8 ppm. Seneye 8 ppm is 8 ppm

 

[NeonRabbit221B]

this thread doesnt agree 8 ppm stalls

they directly tested at 8 ppm.

Bacteria in a bottle, Myth or Fact

Call me old school, back in the day we placed a deli shrimp in a tank to kick start the cycle. When tank reached 1.5-2 ppm ammonia we pulled it out and waited sometimes weeks to months for bacteria to colonize and drop ammonia and nitrites down to 0 to make tank safe for livestock. With recent...

www.reef2reef.com

Huh... Well you have always given me good advice in the past so I guess I need to do more research on cycling. myself haha

 

[jackalexander]

The point of a fishless cycle is not to add fish. Also, bacteria will not die from a 100% water change. The bacteria live on surfaces, not in the water column. Just don't let the surfaces go dry for an extended period.

okay, thank you & I started my fishless cycle and it was reading 2ppm and then after a day 0 ppm so I dropped my damsel.

 

[jackalexander]

8 ppm ammonia is the ~ inhibition point for the first set of nitrifying bacteria. Your going to see nitrates and nitrites still appear cause theoretically 8 ppm ammonia isn't going to be even distributed throughout the entire system at all times. Some small pockets here and there will allow some break down of ammonia to nitrite to nitrate.

You also have an issue with too high nitrite. When nitrite goes above 5 ppm, you get the same issue where you get inhibition of the bacteria that consumes nitrite.

Too much initial ammonia is a big issue. I recommend most people to do less than 2 ppm ammonia on the first dosage to avoid issues. You can crank up the amount of ammonia later on after you get the first round of ammonia to zero out but you can't do a heavy round on the start.

If you can see 8 ppm ammonia on the API test kit, you probably have far more ammonia than you think. Generally, you aren't suppose to dose and test still you can see the ammonia on your test kits. Your suppose to use a known concentration, dose it, and observe for nitrite and nitrate appearance. You can calculate going backwards from the amount of nitrate presence to determine how much ammonia you possibly had at the start.

Like others are recommending, doing a water change to dilute the ammonia out will set you back in order.

For your question on if your bacteria will survive a 100% water change, it can if you have substrate and you don't let the substrate come to a complete dry. Just drain your system quickly and refill it back up.

awesome, thank you so much for the advice. Definitely will have to do a 100% wc today!