Ammonia Keeps Spiking

[JamesWeaver]

So from everything I have read and was told once I have reached 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite my tank was cycled took about a month or so. I cycled with live rock and fish. Tank has been up 6 weeks. Now in my tank I have 4 fish. Midas Blenny, longnose hawk and 2 clowns with 40lbs of live rock. I do weekly 5 gallon water changes with RO/DI water I usually test my water about 2 times a week just to be sure but I keep getting an ammonia spike up to .50 in between water changes. Can someone please tell me why????? And what do I do to fix this? Everyother parameter remains the same constantly.

 

[ihavecrabs]

So from everything I have read and was told once I have reached 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite my tank was cycled took about a month or so. I cycled with live rock and fish. Tank has been up 6 weeks. Now in my tank I have 4 fish. Midas Blenny, longnose hawk and 2 clowns with 40lbs of live rock. I do weekly 5 gallon water changes with RO/DI water I usually test my water about 2 times a week just to be sure but I keep getting an ammonia spike up to .50 in between water changes. Can someone please tell me why????? And what do I do to fix this? Everyother parameter remains the same constantly.

What test kit are you using?

Can you also give some information on how big the tank is, how much rock you have, and any other filter equipment?

 

[Crabs McJones]

Need more info. What test kit, what you used to cycle. And other filtration equipment.

 

[JamesWeaver]

What test kit are you using?

Can you also give some information on how big the tank is, how much rock you have, and any other filter equipment?

API test kit. 55gal tank, 40lbs live rock, 20 gallon sump with skimmer, UV, bag of carbon and refugium with live sand mineral mud and calcium rubble

 

[brandon429]

Another eval to consider: visual impacts beyond the stated readings

if you were to cease testing and not even know the levels, would anything change in the tank? Fish behavior, clouding, anything like that or would it just cruise as normal and only the test indicates an issue

Ammonia will burn, living things react to true ammonia.


And, it must compound in the worst case scenario. No way of just holding at .5 or the more classic .25

Any use of water conditioners can cause a false read for example...prime is one.

 

[Crabs McJones]

API test kit. 55gal tank, 40lbs live rock, 20 gallon sump with skimmer, UV, bag of carbon and refugium with live sand mineral mud and calcium rubble

Api test kits aren't the most reliable. And for whatever reason they always seem to register some sort of ammonia. I'd look into getting the salifert or red sea test kit. More accurate.

 

[JamesWeaver]

Another eval to consider: visual impacts beyond the stated readings

if you were to cease testing and not even know the levels, would anything change in the tank? Fish behavior, clouding, anything like that or would it just cruise as normal and only the test indicates an issue

Ammonia will burn, living things react to true ammonia.


And, it must compound in the worst case scenario. No way of just holding at .5 or the more classic .25

Any use of water conditioners can cause a false read for example...prime is one.

It’s doesn’t hold at .5 or .25 it goes to 0 after water changes and stays there for a few days. And i also wouldn’t say anything really changes on the tank everything is pretty normal until I check it and kind of freak myself out

 

[brandon429]

Can you post full tank shot too, curious to see overall ratios rock water fish sand etc, and if the rock has living organisms like any sponges or fanworms that are fused + living


I never assess ammonia in our cycling threads with test kits we always trace out the source where applicable, a fun aspect of ammonia specifically.

Regarding sponges and worms and live rock beings- those associates help to prove live rock was underwater enough to already have filtration bacteria as a guarantee, I never assume they've died in these readings. Once lr has some associated life, it's a powerful sponge against ammonia, so if there's any true free ammonia we can spot that in pics in skewed ratios, barren white live rock, cruddy sandbed cross section pics etc. true free ammonia has a source we can see in the tank, testing isn't needed to know it due to specifics you've stated.
Occasionally sourcewater is a cause, we had a well water user report ammonia incoming after rains in the region. Eliminate sourcewater as an import for any ammonia although that's mighty rare.

 

[JamesWeaver]

 

[JamesWeaver]

 

[Flexin]

What do you think @brandon429, that tank looks really new.

Did you ever have an algae bloom? The tank looks clean.

You may have to stay on testing and water changes until it’s over to avoid some losses.

Are you using RODI? You may want to test that before mixing salt. You can also consider getting an ammonia badge for the tank to you can see it quickly. They normally last a year, according to the box

 

[brandon429]

Well my goodness, that rock looks really old only the glass looks new

Those ratios seem to be pure gold how is that ammonia looking now? The rock meets all predicted criteria


That fanworm being open, best ammonia indicator around, you got none and I can’t explain why the test says otherwise

Is the topoff water ok? Nobody with a tank like that has lax topoff

Going on devils advocate, where would the source for ammonia be here, sustained this long, with low fish bioloading and high dilution and tons of nice rock, with no actual compounding but just the same reported numbers across thousands of api stalled threads, with not one single biological confirmation such as clouding, stink, or animal loss? Wonderful ammonia tracing post. I’ll vote false typical api issues so far. Has any water conditioners like prime been used


I’ll link your thread here once we figure something out
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-microbiology-of-reef-tank-cycling.214618/


You have the best group b rock I’ve seen so far, we report that as an ammonia scrubber, not generator. You very well may have transient ammonia from mixing or if there’s slight stores of detritus (I can’t see how but possible) being kicked up on changes, but I cannot see any mechanism here for sustained true low level ammonia, your tank clearly has nitrifying bacteria we can literally see them by association. Some may claim the best portion of rocks could be painted coralline reef rocks, but, they have accreted organisms on them so they’ve been underwater a while, and, you have other pics that show classic coralline oceanic live rock which 100% has full nitrifiers present.

A typical claimed source for the leak is a dead worm, but I don’t think so here. I prefer starting a tank like you did James vs the years long wait to turn white rock into something that diverse

 

[JamesWeaver]

All water is RODI and I have been having diatoms but nothing crazy the only thing I have been using is Caribsea AquaBiotic boost once a week. And after I did 5 gallon water change last night I tested after i was done and it was 0

 

[ihavecrabs]

If you are worried about ammonia, pick up an ammonia badge until your tank matures more. It is reusable (you just leave it in and look at it) and good for a year.

I agree with the general consensus above. API kit may be misreading it

 

[JamesWeaver]

Well my goodness, that rock looks really old only the glass looks new

Those ratios seem to be pure gold how is that ammonia looking now? The rock meets all predicted criteria


That fanworm being open, best ammonia indicator around, you got none and I can’t explain why the test says otherwise

Is the topoff water ok? Nobody with a tank like that has lax topoff

Going on devils advocate, where would the source for ammonia be here, sustained this long, with low fish bioloading and high dilution and tons of nice rock, with no actual compounding but just the same reported numbers across thousands of api stalled threads, with not one single biological confirmation such as clouding, stink, or animal loss? Wonderful ammonia tracing post. I’ll vote false typical api issues so far. Has any water conditioners like prime been used


I’ll link your thread here once we figure something out
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-microbiology-of-reef-tank-cycling.214618/


You have the best group b rock I’ve seen so far, we report that as an ammonia scrubber, not generator. You very well may have transient ammonia from mixing or if there’s slight stores of detritus (I can’t see how but possible) being kicked up on changes, but I cannot see any mechanism here for sustained true low level ammonia, your tank clearly has nitrifying bacteria we can literally see them by association. Some may claim the best portion of rocks could be painted coralline reef rocks, but, they have accreted organisms on them so they’ve been underwater a while, and, you have other pics that show classic coralline oceanic live rock which 100% has full nitrifiers present.

A typical claimed source for the leak is a dead worm, but I don’t think so here. I prefer starting a tank like you did James vs the years long wait to turn white rock into something that diverse

I’m just going to get an ammonia badge and keep a close eye on it any suggestions on one? I appreciate all the help and time you guys have given me.

 

[brandon429]

Seachem makes a good one, but don't think they can't misread either we have threads showing misreads too


Nobody really calibrates any of these readings off lab gear to know who is right...the reason I won't own an ammonia test kit is because it's so traceable and ammonia affects a system so badly we just rely on animals to let us know

You will get water clouding with true sustained ammonia, I'm testless fish-in cycling a 55 gallon freshwater setup and as of yesterday, three weeks in + bottle bac, it's clouding stopped and the tank can be fed now without clouding (causing me to rescue water change a few times) which follows our timelines from the cycling thread and was 100% testless cycled going only off known submersion times, boosts added, and clouding timeframes which have now stopped. Cycling is highly predictable, it doesn't do weird things. We linked a few API misreads there

you are currently working on being able to trust your system, that's a neat detail. I'd have a sample of your .50 timeframe water ran off someone else's kit if you could find a salifert or Red Sea kit at lfs or with a friend


I'm into studying significance of claimed ammonia nowadays moreso than finding out why some test kits seem to always show variations or not agree with other kits on a given sample. If the biology lines up and only the kit disputes, we can consider the reading as unimpactful. Your microbenthic life surely hasn't been impacted.


Isn't it amazing when a system can digest lots of ammonia, to prevent daily compounding, but can't digest just the tail-end portion of a days ammonia...always shy at the same number without variance? Bacterial doubt, a truly big deal in reefing and the first practice we get being hesitant. It seems crazy to doubt a chemistry reading, still feels weird to me after all these years too. The state of California should require misread warning labels on all API ammonia kits: use of this device under certain fluorescent lighting, or after total ammonia water conditioners, or on a given day of the week on google can and will cause doubt, be warned citizens. merely filling the test tube with variation, or not shaking the reagent was shown to cause report issues in some of our linked API threads. It's a good kit, but too many unstated confounds that aquarists not API had to find.

API, if you are reading, its been like 25 yrs of this. To this day we can pull up .25 readings in matured tanks, most people know to invalidate the .25 sustained readings

To this day I've never seen biological impacts posted in low level API threads, while Randy's article on ammonia in the reef tank paints free ammonia as highly impactful.


That sand you used was wet pack caribsea or dry sand? Caribsea brings in more bacteria...anything hydrated like wet pack sand bring some tons of filtration bac on day 1. Even if it was dry, that's a lot of real live rock anyway and very good dilution.

Let us know how the badge compares to the test kit as we chart your early readings, great thread

B

 

[brandon429]

question


Every aquarium company has online reps and facebookers now

We need to get API rep in this thread, do they have any social media reps who can join in here?

 

[JamesWeaver]

Seachem makes a good one, but don't think they can't misread either we have threads showing misreads too


Nobody really calibrates any of these readings off lab gear to know who is right...the reason I won't own an ammonia test kit is because it's so traceable and ammonia affects a system so badly we just rely on animals to let us know

You will get water clouding with true sustained ammonia, I'm testless fish-in cycling a 55 gallon freshwater setup and as of yesterday, three weeks in + bottle bac, it's clouding stopped and the tank can be fed now without clouding (causing me to rescue water change a few times) which follows our timelines from the cycling thread and was 100% testless cycled going only off known submersion times, boosts added, and clouding timeframes which have now stopped. Cycling is highly predictable, it doesn't do weird things. We linked a few API misreads there

you are currently working on being able to trust your system, that's a neat detail. I'd have a sample of your .50 timeframe water ran off someone else's kit if you could find a salifert or Red Sea kit at lfs or with a friend


I'm into studying significance of claimed ammonia nowadays moreso than finding out why some test kits seem to always show variations or not agree with other kits on a given sample. If the biology lines up and only the kit disputes, we can consider the reading as unimpactful. Your microbenthic life surely hasn't been impacted.


Isn't it amazing when a system can digest lots of ammonia, to prevent daily compounding, but can't digest just the tail-end portion of a days ammonia...always shy at the same number without variance? Bacterial doubt, a truly big deal in reefing and the first practice we get being hesitant. It seems crazy to doubt a chemistry reading, still feels weird to me after all these years too. The state of California should require misread warning labels on all API ammonia kits: use of this device under certain fluorescent lighting, or after total ammonia water conditioners, or on a given day of the week on google can and will cause doubt, be warned citizens. merely filling the test tube with variation, or not shaking the reagent was shown to cause report issues in some of our linked API threads. It's a good kit, but too many unstated confounds that aquarists not API had to find.

API, if you are reading, its been like 25 yrs of this. To this day we can pull up .25 readings in matured tanks, most people know to invalidate the .25 sustained readings

To this day I've never seen biological impacts posted in low level API threads, while Randy's article on ammonia in the reef tank paints free ammonia as highly impactful.


That sand you used was wet pack caribsea or dry sand? Caribsea brings in more bacteria...anything hydrated like wet pack sand bring some tons of filtration bac on day 1. Even if it was dry, that's a lot of real live rock anyway and very good dilution.

Let us know how the badge compares to the test kit as we chart your early readings, great thread

B

I have 80 pounds of natures ocean live wet sand and 40 pounds of Caribsea live wet sand. The Caribsea sand came with the ARK refugium kit from Caribsea. I have about 15 pounds in my refugium and then I put the rest in the main tank.

 

[brandon429]

Excellent my vote is locked then. Can't wait to see how it traces out over time

 

[Crabs McJones]

Great looking setup by the way