Ammonia spike and two dead snails?!

[Inversus]

Hello,

today I noticed a dead snail in my tank but didnt think much of it. At further inspection I noticed a snail in the same place like last days. On further inspection I noticed its dead too. They dont smell, but they're not really closed and dont move at all. So they look really dead for sure
That worried me so I started to do test and I got a little shock at the ammonia check. Its between 1.2 and 2.0 (Red Sea test)! I checked 5 days ago and there it was 0.2.
At this high ammonia, I double checked the test, but got the same result

Are the snails the reason my ammonia spiked? But I think the tank is too big (52 gallon (red sea reefer 250) for two snails to raise ammonia that much.
Filtration is a skimmer running 24/7. But while writing this I remember I had it stopped over night for 2 days (last friday and saturday) because we had a guest who slept in the room and the skimmer is too loud). The skimmer was stopped for about 8 hours each day)

Other values:
ph = 8.2
nitrate = 7
alk = 8

Others test in progress (nitrite, phosphate). The only thing I changed was stop dosing nopox two weeks ago, feed the tank more to raise phosphate (0) and this week I started with Red Sea Reef Energy AB+ (dosed 2ml per day).
Also changed lightning because I got a PAR meter and corrected it (had to set it to higher intensity)

My tank is fairly new (3 Month) and contains 2 clownfish which seem healthy, 2 corals (GSP (looks a bit troubled) and Zoa (looks good)) and a small CUC (6 snails + hermit crabs).
What can I do or better: What should I do?

 

[blaxsun]

They might have contributed a little, but two snails aren't going to push your tank over the edge unless there's a problem with the biological filter in the tank or something up with the filtration itself (some images of the rocks and details on your filtration setup would help).

In the interim I would perform a 25% (minimum) water change and get some Sechem AmGuard to at least detoxify whatever ammonia may be present. And remove both snails ASAP if you haven't already.

 

[Inversus]

They might have contributed a little, but two snails aren't going to push your tank over the edge unless there's a problem with the biological filter in the tank or something up with the filtration itself (some images of the rocks and details on your filtration setup would help).

In the interim I would perform a 25% (minimum) water change and get some Sechem AmGuard to at least detoxify whatever ammonia may be present. And remove both snails ASAP if you haven't already.

Will do the waterchange asap.
I edited the post for filtration but write it here too;

I have a skimmer running 24/7, nothing else for filtration (except rock and sand). I had the skimmer stopped over night for 2 days (last friday and saturday) because we had a guest who slept in the room and the skimmer is too loud). The skimmer was stopped for about 8 hours each day).
Is that the reason?

 

[homer1475]

FWIW, if they didn't smell bad(trust me you'll know a rotting snail), and they had their operculumn(the little trap door that closes their shell off) in place, they weren't dead.

 

[blaxsun]

Will do the waterchange asap.
I edited the post for filtration but write it here too;

I have a skimmer running 24/7, nothing else for filtration (except rock and sand). I had the skimmer stopped over night for 2 days (last friday and saturday) because we had a guest who slept in the room and the skimmer is too loud). The skimmer was stopped for about 8 hours each day).
Is that the reason?

You need some filtration like a filter sock or filter floss, and probably some carbon as well. A skimmer won't cut it alone. I assume you're running filter socks with your Red Sea in the sump?

 

[homer1475]

If your other inhabitants look and act fine(not lethargic, or breathing at the surface), then I would be very suspect of that test number.

2.0ppm ammonia would most certainly be hurting the clowns gills, and you would notice it.

 

[homer1475]

You need some filtration like a filter sock or filter floss, and probably some carbon as well. A skimmer won't cut it alone. What size is your tank and what brand? Does it have an internal sump at the back of the tank, no sump or an external sump?

I disagree here. Even the skimmer isn't NEEDED.

Simple setups are quite simple and work very well. Heater, powerheads, light, and rock is all thats needed for filtration in a SW setup. Ran a tank with coral this way for many years without issues.

Now if you want that pristine looking water, then some mechanical filtration is in order(filter socks, floss, etc) to catch that particulate that floats around.

 

[blaxsun]

If your other inhabitants look and act fine(not lethargic, or breathing at the surface), then I would be very suspect of that test number.

2.0ppm ammonia would most certainly be hurting the clowns gills, and you would notice it.

I have the Red Sea ammonia test kit. It's easy to perform, next to impossible to screw-up and very clear to read. But it's not a bad idea to run the test again, just to be sure.

 

[homer1475]

I have honestly never used it, so can't speak to the validity of the test. But at 2ppm ammonia, livestock would be suffering and quite noticeable.

 

[Inversus]

FWIW, if they didn't smell bad(trust me you'll know a rotting snail), and they had their operculumn(the little trap door that closes their shell off) in place, they weren't dead.

I have the Red Sea ammonia test kit. It's easy to perform, next to impossible to screw-up and very clear to read. But it's not a bad idea to run the test again, just to be sure.

I attached a pic of my rockwork and the two snails. I put them into a seperate container too look over time. The one which is out a little bit is dead for sure, the other one who is deep inside the house I cant tell...


I redid the test with the same result. And I used the same test the previous month (last time last week) and they were all fine, last week it was .2

 

[blaxsun]

I disagree here. Even the skimmer isn't NEEDED.

Simple setups are quite simple and work very well. Heater, powerheads, light, and rock is all thats needed for filtration in a SW setup. Ran a tank with coral this way for many years without issues.

Now if you want that pristine looking water, then some mechanical filtration is in order(filter socks, floss, etc) to catch that particulate that floats around.

A skimmer is optional, carbon and GFO are optional - but some form of filtration isn't. It could be filter socks, filter floss in a media basket, a refugium - whatever. But you need some way of removing excess nutrients.

The tank is relatively new, doesn't have a large cleanup crew or many corals. And I haven't seen any images of it, but unless it's covered in purple coralline it isn't yet a mature reef.

Addendum: If you look at the image of the rock above, there's no coralline and little (if any) diatoms. It's worth considering that the snails may have simply perished from starvation.

 

[Inversus]

They seem fine to me, but Im a newbie
Edit:
Beside a skimmer the Red sea sump has a bubblesponge. But beside that - no more filtration

 

[homer1475]

A skimmer is optional, carbon and GFO are optional - but some form of filtration isn't. It could be filter socks, filter floss in a media basket, a refugium - whatever. But you need some way of removing excess nutrients.

The tank is relatively new, doesn't have a large cleanup crew or many corals. And I haven't seen any images of it, but unless it's covered in purple coralline it isn't yet a mature reef.

Well mechanical filtration is certainly not needed. Want to remove excess nutrients, WC. While not ideal, it can and does work. Mechanical filtration is not needed.

The only filtration you NEED is biological. Once you can process ammonia to nitrates, it's all one needs for "filtration". To say one NEEDS mechanical filtration is just wrong.

 

[homer1475]

They seem fine to me, but Im a newbie
Edit:
Beside a skimmer the Red sea sump has a bubblesponge. But beside that - no more filtration

Other then the one clown missing a top fin(assuming aggression from other clown) they look fine to me also, which also makes me suspect of that ammonia test.

If you truly had 2ppm ammonia, those fish wouldn't be swimming and playing like in the video.

2 small snails in 50G thats cycled will not spike ammonia to 2ppm. Simply impossible, your biological filtration would eat that up.

 

[Inversus]

Other then the one clown missing a top fin(assuming aggression from other clown) they look fine to me also, which also makes me suspect of that ammonia test.

If you truly had 2ppm ammonia, those fish wouldn't be swimming and playing like in the video.

2 small snails in 50G thats cycled will not spike ammonia to 2ppm. Simply impossible, your biological filtration would eat that up.

The fin was unfortunately missing since I got him (was my first online order of a fish).
Super weird situation.... To be sure because no one replied to it:
The powered off skimmer over night for two days could not caused this? Will be good to know for me for the next time someone stays at our place over night

 

[homer1475]

Depending on how much you feed and stocking, turning the skimmer off could cause the spike, but highly doubtful.

The skimmer removes waste before it has a chance to breakdown(producing ammonia). If enough stuff is rotting before the skimmer removes it, it's possible, but unlikely.

 

[blaxsun]

Well mechanical filtration is certainly not needed. Want to remove excess nutrients, WC. While not ideal, it can and does work. Mechanical filtration is not needed.

The only filtration you NEED is biological. Once you can process ammonia to nitrates, it's all one needs for "filtration". To say one NEEDS mechanical filtration is just wrong.

Respectfully, we'll have to agree to disagree on this point (at least with regards to reefers new to the hobby). Not everyone keeps up with water changes and testing, so using filter floss is a guaranteed (and easy) way to help keep nitrates in-check.

I'm not advocating that your method won't or doesn't work. But this is you and your years of experience vs. the average reefer, and I'm not sure you can just interchange these. I guarantee I do things differently with my tank than you, and I don't want to detract from this thread more than we already have - but suffice it to say I wouldn't advocate my methods for anyone starting out.
..........

I agree with @homer1475 - it's possible, but unlikely. I would re-run your ammonia test again to be sure and also check your nitrite levels (if ammonia truly is this high it should be an interesting number).

 

[homer1475]

A skimmer is optional, carbon and GFO are optional - but some form of filtration isn't. It could be filter socks, filter floss in a media basket, a refugium - whatever. But you need some way of removing excess nutrients.

The tank is relatively new, doesn't have a large cleanup crew or many corals. And I haven't seen any images of it, but unless it's covered in purple coralline it isn't yet a mature reef.

Addendum: If you look at the image of the rock above, there's no coralline and little (if any) diatoms. It's worth considering that the snails may have simply perished from starvation.

It may seem like I'm arguing with you, but I'm not really. Your one of the few people on here that actually like to help, and is usually spot on in your suggestions.

I'm simply stating that mechanical filtration is not a NEED, but it does make maintaining a tank much easier.

Have a look at most pico tanks, they typically do not run any sort of mechanical filtration and rely solely on WC's as a way to export nutrients.

 

[homer1475]

Respectfully, we'll have to agree to disagree on this point (at least with regards to reefers new to the hobby). Not everyone keeps up with water changes and testing, so using filter floss is a guaranteed (and easy) way to help keep nitrates in-check.

I'm not advocating that your method won't or doesn't work. But this is you and your years of experience vs. the average reefer, and I'm not sure you can just interchange these. I guarantee I do things differently with my tank than you, and I don't want to detract from this thread more than we already have - but suffice it to say I wouldn't advocate my methods for anyone starting out.
..........

I agree with @homer1475 - it's possible, but unlikely. I would re-run your ammonia test again to be sure and also check your nitrite levels (if ammonia truly is this high it should be an interesting number).

I would agree with you 100%. With only one caveat.....Mechanical filtration(socks, floss, pads, etc) can also contribute to nitrates if they are not changed out periodically.

But yes we are derailing the OP's thread. Sorry for that. Threads sometimes take on a life of their own.

 

[blaxsun]

I would agree with you 100%. With only one caveat.....Mechanical filtration(socks, floss, pads, etc) can also contribute to nitrates if they are not changed out periodically.

But yes we are derailing the OP's thread. Sorry for that. Threads sometimes take on a life of their own.

The caveat is well worth noting, because as you pointed out - if neglected, filter socks can become a double-edged sword.
..........

The one thing I'm looking at in the OPs tank are the rocks, and I can't help but wonder if it cycled correctly (or fully). The Red Sea 250 is 65 gallons, and I'm still having trouble wrapping my head around that ammonia level (if correct) with a pair of fish and handful of cleanup crew.