Amount of dry rock

[DirtDiggler2823]

I've been planning my tank out and i seem to have hit a sticking point in my understanding of the role the dry rock plays. I was under the impression that the more porous the rock is, and the more rock there is, the more surface area is available for bacteria to colonize, which is good. However, is there a point of diminishing return on this? If i toss a block of MarinePure in my sump, does the amount of rock i use in the display tank matter, outside of the aesthetics of scaping? I planned on using 40 pounds of pukani, and another 30 or so of reef saver in my 90 gallon, but my concept of how this all works has been challenged as of late, so I'd like to know what this community thinks on the topic.

 

[Lloyd Williams]

I've been planning my tank out and i seem to have hit a sticking point in my understanding of the role the dry rock plays. I was under the impression that the more porous the rock is, and the more rock there is, the more surface area is available for bacteria to colonize, which is good. However, is there a point of diminishing return on this? If i toss a block of MarinePure in my sump, does the amount of rock i use in the display tank matter, outside of the aesthetics of scaping? I planned on using 40 pounds of pukani, and another 30 or so of reef saver in my 90 gallon, but my concept of how this all works has been challenged as of late, so I'd like to know what this community thinks on the topic.

As the rock matures in your tank beneficial organisms will take up residence in the rock. Sure there can be to much of a good thing but personally I think it will take a while to reach that level. Reef bugs, worms, etc feed and clean. They live in rock and sand. Fish love places to rest and hide, at least the ones I keep. In a 32 biocube I’ve got around 25-30 pounds and it’s doing quite well.

 

[WV Reefer]

I've been planning my tank out and i seem to have hit a sticking point in my understanding of the role the dry rock plays. I was under the impression that the more porous the rock is, and the more rock there is, the more surface area is available for bacteria to colonize, which is good. However, is there a point of diminishing return on this? If i toss a block of MarinePure in my sump, does the amount of rock i use in the display tank matter, outside of the aesthetics of scaping? I planned on using 40 pounds of pukani, and another 30 or so of reef saver in my 90 gallon, but my concept of how this all works has been challenged as of late, so I'd like to know what this community thinks on the topic.

I think you are overthinking it. (That can happen after reading the forums too much. lol)

At the end of the day it comes down to aesthetics. My 75 has much less rock than some reefs because I hate that whole “wall of rocks” look.

 

[Lloyd Williams]

I think you are overthinking it. (That can happen after reading the forums too much. lol)

At the end of the day it comes down to aesthetics. My 75 has much less rock than some reefs because I hate that whole “wall of rocks” look.

To avoid that wall of rock look I tried to kinda lay my rocks in a pattern looking like pride rock from lion king. Then I built AROUND that piece. Added caves, overhangs and pass throughs (top down)

 

[DirtDiggler2823]

I have a scaping concept in my head, but i was planning to add some dry rock into the sump as well

 

[CDavmd]

The old rule of 1-2 pounds per gallons has fallen by the wayside. Remember that rule was in adopted during a time in this hobby when nutrient export methods were rudimentary. Live Rock was the foundation for your nitrogen cycle but as this hobby has evolved, less and less rock and more attention to aesthetics with minimal aquaecapes have taken over. There are many examples of successful systems with no where near that amount of rock. Some have even proposed that 20 pounds will do it for no matter what system size.

http://www.saltwateraquariumblog.com/how-much-live-rock-do-i-need/

I personally think it depends on your bio-load and ultimate plans. I despise the rock wall and "fruits stand" look but that is a personal preference. I prefer minimal aquaecapes with lots of room for coral to grow and open space for fish to swim. And the added benefit of better flow throughout the tank with less dead spots.

My recommendation is to use a light porous rock such as Pukani, Fiji, Marshall (hard to get them these days) or Marco, Reefsaver, Reefcleaners (all the same) and build the aquascape according to what you envision as the final mature reef without regard to the amount of rock. Remember corals will grow and the rock will blend into the background and not be seen in the future. Incorporate a couple small pieces of "live rock, cured live rock, etc" to seed the system and go from there.

In regards to marinepur- be aware that it has been found to leach Aluminum into systems; now whether thats bad or not has yet to be seen. I put a brick into one of my systems sumps a year ago. Yes it helps keep nitrates down but I will not use it again. My Aluminum by Triton has gone up and further it makes a mess as it starts disintegrating over time. You can't even look at it without it crumbling. I'm tearing that system down soon as I move my livestock into my new reefer425xl build so at this point I don't care but I will not use it again.

So here is an example of my current build- its a 112gallon system and I am only using 45 pounds of Marco Rock that I will seed with a small piece of true ocean live rock from KP aquatics.

Hope this helps answer your question.

 

[lapin]

1)However, is there a point of diminishing return on this? No
2)If i toss a block of MarinePure in my sump, does the amount of rock i use in the display tank matter, outside of the aesthetics of scaping? No

You can use as much or as little rock as you want. The rock is there to look at. When the amount of rock comes into play when you decide to put living things in your tank and how you want to export waste. If you have little waste as in a frag tank you really dont need a lot of rock. If you have eels and they eat a lot you need to do a lot nutrient removal and ammonia conversion. The bacteria and creatures living in the rock help with that process. Do you have a skimmer? Do you have a sump with a fuge? Do you have a algae turf scrubber? How much and how often will you do water changes? This is why you see "1 lb per gallon is way to much" "1 lb per gallon is what you want" "2 lbs per gallon is to much" "2 lbs per gallon is what you want" "I only have 2 rocks in my 32 gallon cube" ect ect......There are general numbers for average tanks as a rule of thumb. Use those as a starter point.
I almost forgot the one thing people dont think about too much. The space in between rocks. That's where your livestock sleeps, hides,plays ect... They will want as many places to go as they can get. This will help keep them stress free.
What works for you is what works for you.

 

[DirtDiggler2823]

You can use as much or as little rock as you want. The rock is there to look at. When the amount of rock comes into play when you decide to put living things in your tank and how you want to export waste. If you have little waste as in a frag tank you really dont need a lot of rock. If you have eels and they eat a lot you need to do a lot nutrient removal and ammonia conversion. The bacteria and creatures living in the rock help with that process. Do you have a skimmer? Do you have a sump with a fuge? Do you have a algae turf scrubber? How much and how often will you do water changes? This is why you see "1 lb per gallon is way to much" "1 lb per gallon is what you want" "2 lbs per gallon is to much" "2 lbs per gallon is what you want" "I only have 2 rocks in my 32 gallon cube" ect ect......There are general numbers for average tanks as a rule of thumb. Use those as a starter point.
I almost forgot the one thing people dont think about too much. The space in between rocks. That's where your livestock sleeps, hides,plays ect... They will want as many places to go as they can get. This will help keep them stress free.
What works for you is what works for you.

I'm in the planning phase right now, so I'm building a sump that will have a skimmer, and a chaeto fuge, but the specifics haven't been determined yet. I don't plan on having any eels in this 90 gallon DT, but i do plan on a pair of clowns, a couple of small tangs, gobys, and a few other fish. The stock list is very much up in the air. I'm planning on a heavy bioload either way, just in case.

 

[DirtDiggler2823]

The old rule of 1-2 pounds per gallons has fallen by the wayside. Remember that rule was in adopted during a time in this hobby when nutrient export methods were rudimentary. Live Rock was the foundation for your nitrogen cycle but as this hobby has evolved, less and less rock and more attention to aesthetics with minimal aquaecapes have taken over. There are many examples of successful systems with no where near that amount of rock. Some have even proposed that 20 pounds will do it for no matter what system size.

http://www.saltwateraquariumblog.com/how-much-live-rock-do-i-need/

I personally think it depends on your bio-load and ultimate plans. I despise the rock wall and "fruits stand" look but that is a personal preference. I prefer minimal aquaecapes with lots of room for coral to grow and open space for fish to swim. And the added benefit of better flow throughout the tank with less dead spots.

My recommendation is to use a light porous rock such as Pukani, Fiji, Marshall (hard to get them these days) or Marco, Reefsaver, Reefcleaners (all the same) and build the aquascape according to what you envision as the final mature reef without regard to the amount of rock. Remember corals will grow and the rock will blend into the background and not be seen in the future. Incorporate a couple small pieces of "live rock, cured live rock, etc" to seed the system and go from there.

In regards to marinepur- be aware that it has been found to leach Aluminum into systems; now whether thats bad or not has yet to be seen. I put a brick into one of my systems sumps a year ago. Yes it helps keep nitrates down but I will not use it again. My Aluminum by Triton has gone up and further it makes a mess as it starts disintegrating over time. You can't even look at it without it crumbling. I'm tearing that system down soon as I move my livestock into my new reefer425xl build so at this point I don't care but I will not use it again.

So here is an example of my current build- its a 112gallon system and I am only using 45 pounds of Marco Rock that I will seed with a small piece of true ocean live rock from KP aquatics.

Hope this helps answer your question.

MarinePure is being billed as the best thing to happen to aquariums since glass came about, so thanks for the heads up on that. I'll probably go with a deep sand bed in my fuge. I don't plan on doing the wall of rock, or the pile of rocks, i have a pretty solid idea for what i want to build, but since I've never worked with these materials before, i have no idea as to how much i would need for my scape. It is comforting to know that what im planning for the scape will probably be sufficient for the BB in the tank, and hopefully it's enough to support ample microfauna. I'd like to have a dragonete pair once this thing is established.

 

[lapin]

I'd like to have a dragonete pair once this thing is established.

Ok now we have something to work with. They need a lot of pods to survive. Yes they will eat frozen stuff if you are lucky. They really are hunters and like pods. They normally dont live in high flow environments. (SPS tanks). To have a thriving pod population you need to feed a lot and have places for pods to grow and hide. BB might not be the best choice. Coral ; SPS do not like high nutrient loads. LPS are fine with that.
Marine pure blocks. Look up "Randy and Marine Pure" . There is a concern about them leeching aluminum and its effect on certain corals.
Just some things to think about.

 

[DirtDiggler2823]

Ok now we have something to work with. They need a lot of pods to survive. Yes they will eat frozen stuff if you are lucky. They really are hunters and like pods. They normally dont live in high flow environments. (SPS tanks). To have a thriving pod population you need to feed a lot and have places for pods to grow and hide. BB might not be the best choice. Coral ; SPS do not like high nutrient loads. LPS are fine with that.
Marine pure blocks. Look up "Randy and Marine Pure" . There is a concern about them leeching aluminum and its effect on certain corals.
Just some things to think about.

BB means beneficial bacteria in this case. Is there another meaning for BB in this side of the hobby?

 

[ihavecrabs]

BB means beneficial bacteria in this case. Is there another meaning for BB in this side of the hobby?

bare bottom

 

[DirtDiggler2823]

bare bottom

Ah, makes sense. No, I plan on using either hawaiian black, or fiji pink sand.

 

[Redleg]

If your going with dry rock order more than you think you'll need. Also if you want shelf style rocks order them or ask for some in the comments section. The more options you have the better. If you end up with way too much just save it for your next tank.

 

[DirtDiggler2823]

If your going with dry rock order more than you think you'll need. Also if you want shelf style rocks order them or ask for some in the comments section. The more options you have the better. If you end up with way too much just save it for your next tank.

I'm planning on needing at least 5 shelf pieces for what I'm building. I'll keep that in mind for when i finally order. Thanks!

 

[Lloyd Williams]

Ah, makes sense. No, I plan on using either hawaiian black, or fiji pink sand.

That black sand shows more dirt imo#humble

 

[theKoolAidMan]

Thanks to modern reefing methods, the old rule of 1-2 lb per gallon has largely died. At this point the question is how much rock do you want in the tank from as aesthetics perspective? Do you want a wall of rocks? Do you want islands? Do you want to go minimalist. It's mostly about the look you want.

 

[DirtDiggler2823]

Picked up about 60 pounds of dry rock. Anyone know what the purple rock is? It's kinda heavy compared to the rest.

 

[CDavmd]

Looks like the caribe sea life rock branch type. Man made and very dense. I have a bunch left over for sale ( shapes and original version).

 

[DirtDiggler2823]

Looks like the caribe sea life rock branch type. Man made and very dense. I have a bunch left over for sale ( shapes and original version).

Thanks. It is substantially heavier than the rest of the rock.