An Ich Story

[lion king]

Just thought I'd share an interesting experience for your entertainment or research. So I've been doing tanks for close to 3 years now, I've had ich twice; both times there had not been a new resident for months. Both times I can pinpoint a stressful event that triggered the outbreak. (So is it always just laying in wait...that's the age old question.)

So my 210 fowlr set up more than 2 years ago, every fish went into qt for a month before introduction, no prophylactic ich treatment or ttm. After adding 5 fish(pinktail and pair of bluejaws, harlequin, and a majestic angel), I lost 2 fish in qt and about 3-4 months by without adding anything. The stressful event: treated the tank with chemiclean and the fact that the triggers weren't getting along. And bam ich, treated the tank all come through with flying colors. Since added a orange shoulder tank and a yellow dogface puffer. The pink tail chased the male bluejaw out of the tank, and I gave the female husband #2.

Now a year later, bluejaw husband #2 has what appears to be ich in the form of white spots. Other than the spots he shows no signs of flashing, clamped fins, etc. No other fish has any signs. The tank has given me more drama than every other tank I have combined. So I'm kind of done, I plan to let it ride out.

Just thought I'd share my story for anyone trying to make sense of what's happening in their tanks, or for anyone wishing to make a comment.

 

[melypr1985]

thanks for sharing.

 

[4FordFamily]

You're essentially practicing ich management, whereby any stress event triggers an outbreak. Eventually, the outbreak could turn deadly unfortunately. I ran my tanks this way for a decade until I was tired of losing fish and it biting me suddenly.

 

[Lionfish Lair]

You're essentially practicing ich management, whereby any stress event triggers an outbreak. Eventually, the outbreak could turn deadly unfortunately. I ran my tanks this way for a decade until I was tired of losing fish and it biting me suddenly.

Same thing happened with me. My volitans had a full blown case 3 times and the last time I just had back surgery and was unable to tend to him. He died.

 

[lion king]

You're essentially practicing ich management, whereby any stress event triggers an outbreak. Eventually, the outbreak could turn deadly unfortunately. I ran my tanks this way for a decade until I was tired of losing fish and it biting me suddenly.

So what did you do different?

When you say "ich management", isn't that what we are all doing. From what I know treating ich prophylactically doesn't work. I'm not experienced enough with ttm to say if that's an end all technique to assuring no ich. I treated the entire tank with cupramine. This particular fish that's exhibiting spots, I've had in the tank for year. I'm at a loss to figure out what I could do different.

 

[melypr1985]

So what did you do different?

When you say "ich management", isn't that what we are all doing. From what I know treating ich prophylactically doesn't work. I'm not experienced enough with ttm to say if that's an end all technique to assuring no ich. I treated the entire tank with cupramine. This particular fish that's exhibiting spots, I've had in the tank for year. I'm at a loss to figure out what I could do different.

Prophylactic treatment does work. It's very possible to keep ick out of your tank from the outset. Quarantine of anything wet that enters your tank is essential for this. Having a fishless coral and invert QT would be what you need. Treating a display with copper is not ideal considering the rocks and sand will absorb the copper, even to the point of lowering it below therapeutic levels. Having this happen would not kill ich but would suppress symptoms for a time.

 

[Ty Hamatake]

I recently had my first ich outbreak I had a purple firefish who had been with me for almost a year and a half, the newest addition to the tank had been in for almost two months. One day the firefish came out of her cave covered in it. I donto have the option of a QT so I tried my best to treat the fish in the tank using medicated food. Symptoms cleared up, everything went back to normal, and about a week ago the firefish came up dead. It was pretty sad, she was my first loss due to a parasite. From the research I did ich strains live up to four years, so I guess I will be practicing ich management for that period of time

 

[Lionfish Lair]

Ty, ich are not self limiting and can continue their cycle past 4 years. One study kept them going 5 years and had no indication that it wouldn't go on indefinitely. May I ask your source for this?

 

[Paul B]

You're essentially practicing ich management, whereby any stress event triggers an outbreak. Eventually, the outbreak could turn deadly unfortunately. I ran my tanks this way for a decade until I was tired of losing fish and it biting me suddenly.

I don't like that term "Ich Management" I prefer "ich immunity" or a "Natural system" . OK, I am out of here, good luck

 

[Lionfish Lair]

Paul, a hobbyist practices "Ich Management" by allowing the fish's immunity to suppress a full outbreak. A hobbyist can't practice "fish immunity" as that onus is on the fish. We're just there to encourage/support that and the word we use to describe it has been coined "Ich Management".

 

[Paul B]

I can agree to that Lionfish. It just doesn't feel right to me, but it's just semantics. We all want the same outcome. Healthy fish.

 

[Lionfish Lair]

Correct. It's just a label to differentiate between actively treating the fish verses not and helps with confusion between the 2 processes. You really can't exchange the word for "ich immunity" and have the sentence still make sense.

 

[4FordFamily]

I don't like that term "Ich Management" I prefer "ich immunity" or a "Natural system" . OK, I am out of here, good luck

I would argue most don't even manage it well, as it eventually fails for the vast majority of folks. So I guess it should be "ich temporary or partial success protocol" !

 

[4FordFamily]

Same thing happened with me. My volitans had a full blown case 3 times and the last time I just had back surgery and was unable to tend to him. He died.

I think most of us in the "proper quarantine and treatment" camp have much experience with "ich management" which is what eventually leads us all here. I think we would be hard pressed to find someone that didn't apply to. For me, I know I waited WAY too long and was VERY stubborn and thick-headed...

 

[Ty Hamatake]

Ty, ich are not self limiting and can continue their cycle past 4 years. One study kept them going 5 years and had no indication that it wouldn't go on indefinitely. May I ask your source for this?

Oh man, I can't for the life of me find where I read that... when I discovered ich in my tank I went on a link clicking rampage. The article seemed legitimate, but this was definitely a good lesson for me to verify where I read something before posting about it. Especially in an area where someone might use that information to determine fairly critical steps taken with their tank. I'll continue the hunt and let you know if anything turns up.

 

[Lionfish Lair]

Oh man, I can't for the life of me find where I read that... when I discovered ich in my tank I went on a link clicking rampage. The article seemed legitimate, but this was definitely a good lesson for me to verify where I read something before posting about it. Especially in an area where someone might use that information to determine fairly critical steps taken with their tank. I'll continue the hunt and let you know if anything turns up.

Everything can't be verified and all our conversations would stop if we didn't rely on some hearsay. You haven't jumped the gun by sharing your info, though, as it was information I ran into some years ago on the forums and it did come from a study. The researchers were unable to keep the parasite alive for anything over 10-11 months or 34 cycles. Rather than dubbing the organism self-limiting based on one study, additional data should have been considered, as when the test was repeated, the parasite was kept alive for over two years. In another study, they had used a sample collected in 1994 from a culture started and maintained since 1989. That comes from DIGGLES, B., & ADLARD, R. (1997). Intraspecific Variation in Cryptocaryon irritans. The Journal of Eukaryotic Microbiology, 44(1)4.

Please continue to share the things you discover

 

[lion king]

Ford, I still didn't get a answer to what you do now; if not "ich management". With everything a fish goes through to get to our tanks, if you don't think they've been exposed to ich; you are living in denial. And no matter how you qt, it's up to the immune system of the fish.

 

[Lionfish Lair]

You can treat the fish. That's the alternative to management.

 

[melypr1985]

Ford, I still didn't get a answer to what you do now; if not "ich management". With everything a fish goes through to get to our tanks, if you don't think they've been exposed to ich; you are living in denial. And no matter how you qt, it's up to the immune system of the fish.

You can treat and cure ick on a fish. You can leave your tank fallow for 76 days to starve it out of the system before putting the healthy fish in it. There are any number of articles and experts on this site that can help you with that if you wish. Here are just a sampling for some light reading :
How to Quarantine
The DOs and DON’Ts of Quarantine
Fallow periods: Going Fishless
Treatment Options Index

Check it out. Get back to us with any questions. We are here to help!

 

[Ty Hamatake]

Ford, I still didn't get a answer to what you do now; if not "ich management". With everything a fish goes through to get to our tanks, if you don't think they've been exposed to ich; you are living in denial. And no matter how you qt, it's up to the immune system of the fish.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ich-eradication-vs-ich-management.188775/
This is one article I read while researching what to do about my ich outbreak. It describes the alternative to "ich managent" known as ich eradication where any and everything wet is QT'd and/or treated for ich, hopefully stopping it before it get into your tank. This may be what Ford is referring to. Or maybe I'm way off, all I know is that I will be in the "ich management" group for the time being.