Angry Upgrade 120 to 230 Peninsula!

[AngryOwl]

Water change station completed. Made a couple of videos about it.

 

[AngryOwl]

Hey guys, sorry for the radio silence. Not much has been accomplished... still waiting on the tank to be completed. In the meantime I need to finish painting the stand and start doing some aquascaping. Hoping the tank arrives soon!

 

[AngryOwl]

Quick update:

Got word the tank would be done on the 17th, so I will plan delivery for that weekend!

Also I might end up going with the ATI sunpower with sb reef bars for lights instead.

Side note: did a water change today and didn't flood the garage ;Hilarious ahh... success

 

[AngryOwl]

Turns out my tank came yesterday! All paid for and now just getting delivery scheduled. It might be in the house next week or the week after at the latest! Awesome looking tank and seems huge compared to the stupid 120

 

[AngryOwl]

Stand is in the house! Tank gets delivered on Wednesday. Obviously the stand is not 100% finished yet... but it will look incredible once completed!

What are your thoughts about adding a bar top on the side with no doors?

 

[PSXerholic]

Stand is in the house! Tank gets delivered on Wednesday. Obviously the stand is not 100% finished yet... but it will look incredible once completed!

What are your thoughts about adding a bar top on the side with no doors?

NICE !!! Know these pics from local FB groups ;-)

 

[AngryOwl]

NICE !!! Know these pics from local FB groups ;-)

3 hours to go!

 

[AngryOwl]

Here it is guys! No turning back now I'm loving the look this has already and it's not even close to being done. Tank looks amazing and I can already picture it with my fish swimming around and being able to walk around 3 sides! ;Drool

Enjoy the pics, I've included a shot from my perspective... a birds eye view

One early setback to note... the overflow box does not fit... there is not enough clearance so it hits the euro bracing... escalated this accordingly... there's two possible issues here 1) the overflow box was too big and just needs to be remade... 2) the holes drilled on the tank are too high up... will update once I get an answer!

 

[AngryOwl]

I haven't ranted in a while and I have some stuff on my mind... what do you say to a good Angry rant?

Well.. lets get started...

Today I'm going to rant about Acros and other hobbyists... First things first though. About 4 weeks ago now I bought some acros from the FragHouseCorals live sale here on R2R. There was some amazing deals and awesome coral for sale and with the pre-sale shipping module bonus I took home 8 corals for $160. One millie died within the first few days but looked bad from the start.. I messaged FragHouse and was refunded. Awesome customer service and support, would purchase again and recommend you do as well. Either way... that leaves 7 remaining frags and of those 7 I am now down to 4ish....

Over the first 2 weeks the corals slowly started fading from their bright coloration and then I would notice STN occurring from the tips, but I think 1 or 2 went from the base... What I have remaining is pretty much stuck it it's retracted or nearly dead state... all except the Birds of Paradise of course... (doing great). You may have already started jumping to the typical hobbiest response for why this is happening:
1) Alk problems
2) Nutrient problems (too low or too high NO3/PO4)
3) Other chemistry issues (metals in water, etc..)
4) Not enough flow
5) Too much flow
6) Pest in the tank
7) Fish nipping them
8) Lighting
9) Do water changes
10) Your RODI water is BAD!
11) Your tank is too new you noob!

So lets talk about those....
As you may have previously read I have been keeping track of my Alk on nearly a daily basis (sometimes I go 2 or 3 days without testing... I'm human... er... owl... leave me alone!)
Alk has been 7.5 +/- 1 for well over a month now.
Calc - 400
Mag - 1300

Last test of NO3 was 2ppm... PO4 at 33 ppb (hanna ulr) == .101ppm.

ICP test was a while ago but showed no contaminated metals.. planning to do another for fun soon.

Flow on the current tank is 1 gyre 250 running in wave mode at 40% and 1 jabeo pp8 running 70% and return pump runs at 1500gph off split return lines... Flow is fine. I've seen less flow still have good success.

I've searched for pests, can't find any but I'm not 100% going to rule it out.

I've never seen any fish nip. If one did I would suspect the flame angel but I have juicy acorns for it to eat first (acans).

Look what I posted back on post #119... its nearly the same thing I'm ranting about now.

Here is a quote from it:

Throughout this past month and half my corals have been looking great. Growth is taking off on my purple stylo, to the point I can notice it daily without pictures. The tester corals on my frag rack were also doing pretty good. But this Sunday/Monday I noticed one of the acros taking a turn for the worse... and a turn that has been a consistent frustrating pattern. I noticed it started to STN... while the other acro started to go from blue to brown.

The purple stylo looks amazing... tester birds nest is super fluffy. Weird green coral (acro??) looks fine, ugly but fine... and the other stylo looks good as well. With that said I can confirm my ALK has been stable holding at 7.4 +-1. Last water change was a few weeks ago and was only 5g. Parameters below (tested Sunday):
Alk: 7.3 hanna
Calc: 400 red sea
Mg: 1500 red sea
PO4: 3ppb == .009ppm hanna ulr phosphorus
NO3: .25ppm red sea

Since August 3rd I've been exclusively feeding frozen food once per day at night. I've since increased the amount I feed to about 3-4 cubes. Before each feeding I dose 2ml of Reef Energy part A or B. I dose on alternate days (i.e. part B today, part A tomorrow)... and I feed a little amount of reef roids everyday. I take a butter knife and get a small amount on the tip.

I'm cleaning the glass about every 2 days... the point being that nutrients are present.

Today I test par with my seneye.
Top of water: 375
Purple Stylo: 160-180 (for reference this is about middle of the tank)
Frag Rack: 120-150

Par numbers are for those who will say "your nutrients are too low so you're burning them with light"...

I suppose lastly I would like to add I'm running an rain2 algae scrubber that doesn't grow super great. I run it 6 or 8 hours (I forgot) and I only run 2 of the 4 lights. At this point the overflow weirs are growing more and better algae than the scrubber....

I'm running a 6 bulb ATI fixture, 4 Blue+, 1 true actinic, 1 aquablue special. 2 bulbs start at 6:30am, all 6 run from 11:30am to 6:30pm and lights out at 10pm.

RODI filters were completely changed out in the past month as well as doing 20g water changes the past 3 weeks. I've also tried dosing some Microbacter7 and Prodibio bacteria.

Still I face the issues of losing Acros while my other sticks do great. If you look in the sump you see all kinds of life in there so I don't think this is a case of the tank just being "new"... also pros like @PSXerholic have shown what "new" tanks can do!

I posted in the local FB group to ask for some help and the responses I got were absolutely terrible. One person just replies "Dirty tank, check all of your parameters, you literally have algae growing on the skeletons"... Yea buddy that happens when things die, great advise... The next guy says "Phosphates are really high (from all the algae growing I would assume) and I'm sure you nitrates are through the roof as well. Acros are very delicate and you really need to do lot more research on how to keep them."... very insightful... because I haven't spent the past year doing hours of research online reading about other peoples successes, failures, issues, etc... Let me fire up the PC and start researching for the first time after over a year...

Come on guys... what kind of answers are these? If someone said that to them they would say what the heck am I suppose to do with that "information". I have a feeling about the type of people who post things like that are the people who started a tank and stumbled into success instantly and think they are masters. Look... if you have had instant success or even success through many years and failures... there is no need to act like that to people trying to achieve what you do. People need to learn how to be better to each other and if you want to go bash on someone do it in a private message with you and you buddies.

As for comments on my "high" nutrients I call BS on that. Someone needs to convince me otherwise but I do not believe a tank with "reasonable" amount of NO3 and PO4 would cause corals to die after being added to a tank. Ask @melev how his corals do when he adds them with 40ppm NO3 and PO4 .75ppm!!!!

This is a classic rant and I tried to make it organized but it is complete chaos.

TL/DR version:
Rant 1) Acros STN, stable parameters, flow and lighting are okay, water changes being completed, tank is over a year old, can't figure out why.
Rant 2) Hobbyist need to stop looking down on other people who don't have success and offering up help in the form of aggressive or passive aggressive insults... we all have struggles and we all have the choice to keep it moving and not respond. So if you don't have something productive to say, keep it moving and don't respond.

Edit: Rant Bonus - I'm not an idiot, so don't assume I am by telling me to go do some research like posting to R2R is my first reaction. Before I post anything I research the problem and try suggested solutions or attempt to come to my own solution. ;Punch When I post a problem I am legitimately stuck and cannot find the answer, I need support.

Pics incoming for reference... poor quality:

New tank view!

 

[PSXerholic]

I haven't ranted in a while and I have some stuff on my mind... what do you say to a good Angry rant?

Well.. lets get started...

Today I'm going to rant about Acros and other hobbyists... First things first though. About 4 weeks ago now I bought some acros from the FragHouseCorals live sale here on R2R. There was some amazing deals and awesome coral for sale and with the pre-sale shipping module bonus I took home 8 corals for $160. One millie died within the first few days but looked bad from the start.. I messaged FragHouse and was refunded. Awesome customer service and support, would purchase again and recommend you do as well. Either way... that leaves 7 remaining frags and of those 7 I am now down to 4ish....

Over the first 2 weeks the corals slowly started fading from their bright coloration and then I would notice STN occurring from the tips, but I think 1 or 2 went from the base... What I have remaining is pretty much stuck it it's retracted or nearly dead state... all except the Birds of Paradise of course... (doing great). You may have already started jumping to the typical hobbiest response for why this is happening:
1) Alk problems
2) Nutrient problems (too low or too high NO3/PO4)
3) Other chemistry issues (metals in water, etc..)
4) Not enough flow
5) Too much flow
6) Pest in the tank
7) Fish nipping them
8) Lighting
9) Do water changes
10) Your RODI water is BAD!
11) Your tank is too new you noob!

So lets talk about those....
As you may have previously read I have been keeping track of my Alk on nearly a daily basis (sometimes I go 2 or 3 days without testing... I'm human... er... owl... leave me alone!)
Alk has been 7.5 +/- 1 for well over a month now.
Calc - 400
Mag - 1300

Last test of NO3 was 2ppm... PO4 at 33 ppb (hanna ulr) == .101ppm.

ICP test was a while ago but showed no contaminated metals.. planning to do another for fun soon.

Flow on the current tank is 1 gyre 250 running in wave mode at 40% and 1 jabeo pp8 running 70% and return pump runs at 1500gph off split return lines... Flow is fine. I've seen less flow still have good success.

I've searched for pests, can't find any but I'm not 100% going to rule it out.

I've never seen any fish nip. If one did I would suspect the flame angel but I have juicy acorns for it to eat first (acans).

Look what I posted back on post #119... its nearly the same thing I'm ranting about now.

Here is a quote from it:


RODI filters were completely changed out in the past month as well as doing 20g water changes the past 3 weeks. I've also tried dosing some Microbacter7 and Prodibio bacteria.

Still I face the issues of losing Acros while my other sticks do great. If you look in the sump you see all kinds of life in there so I don't think this is a case of the tank just being "new"... also pros like @PSXerholic have shown what "new" tanks can do!

I posted in the local FB group to ask for some help and the responses I got were absolutely terrible. One person just replies "Dirty tank, check all of your parameters, you literally have algae growing on the skeletons"... Yea buddy that happens when things die, great advise... The next guy says "Phosphates are really high (from all the algae growing I would assume) and I'm sure you nitrates are through the roof as well. Acros are very delicate and you really need to do lot more research on how to keep them."... very insightful... because I haven't spent the past year doing hours of research online reading about other peoples successes, failures, issues, etc... Let me fire up the PC and start researching for the first time after over a year...

Come on guys... what kind of answers are these? If someone said that to them they would say what the heck am I suppose to do with that "information". I have a feeling about the type of people who post things like that are the people who started a tank and stumbled into success instantly and think they are masters. Look... if you have had instant success or even success through many years and failures... there is no need to act like that to people trying to achieve what you do. People need to learn how to be better to each other and if you want to go bash on someone do it in a private message with you and you buddies.

As for comments on my "high" nutrients I call crap on that. Someone needs to convince me otherwise but I do not believe a tank with "reasonable" amount of NO3 and PO4 would cause corals to die after being added to a tank. Ask @melev how his corals do when he adds them with 40ppm NO3 and PO4 .75ppm!!!!

This is a classic rant and I tried to make it organized but it is complete chaos.

TL/DR version:
Rant 1) Acros STN, stable parameters, flow and lighting are okay, water changes being completed, tank is over a year old, can't figure out why.
Rant 2) Hobbyist need to stop looking down on other people who don't have success and offering up help in the form of aggressive or passive aggressive insults... we all have struggles and we all have the choice to keep it moving and not respond. So if you don't have something productive to say, keep it moving and don't respond.

Edit: Rant Bonus - I'm not an idiot, so don't assume I am by telling me to go do some research like posting to R2R is my first reaction. Before I post anything I research the problem and try suggested solutions or attempt to come to my own solution. ;Punch When I post a problem I am legitimately stuck and cannot find the answer, I need support.

Pics incoming for reference... poor quality:

New tank view!

Hey Angry, you saw my tank pictures so far, right.
Since the last picture colors are improving still, and measured yesterday my Po4 and Nitrates.
Po4 was 0.25 (yeah right,lol) and No3 around 6-8..............
My Po4 is high yes, but that's because I replaced all my Bio Pellets and basically have to restart the reactor and it's pellets since the previous ones are not available anymore. But long story short, your issue is partially related to Nutrients but the key issue is somewhere else.

From experience I would tackle your issue with an ICP test first!!! Just to rule out the chemistry side for not healthy corals. The issue is likely an effect of diseases outbreak due to insufficient health.
That may likely come from a water chemistry issue.
If you have a previous one then post the link here to look at.
Many times it's that certain important trace elements are depleted or far over the limits preventing corals from becoming beauties.

Give a rat's a** about the other guys comments, that is very helpful guidance you got, lol.

Also let's see your sump and filter arrangement.
In addition what I recommend to everyone is to start using Biodigest weekly or biweekly as I describe it in my e-book in great detail. In order to get a jump start, overdose Biodigest 3-4times on the first day.

Do you have PH curves for the tank?
As well, how do you maintain the tank with ALK,CA and MG? Dosing, reactor etc.?

 

[AngryOwl]

Hey Angry, you saw my tank pictures so far, right.
Since the last picture colors are improving still, and measured yesterday my Po4 and Nitrates.
Po4 was 0.25 (yeah right,lol) and No3 around 6-8..............
My Po4 is high yes, but that's because I replaced all my Bio Pellets and basically have to restart the reactor and it's pellets since the previous ones are not available anymore. But long story short, your issue is partially related to Nutrients but the key issue is somewhere else.

From experience I would tackle your issue with an ICP test first!!! Just to rule out the chemistry side for not healthy corals. The issue is likely an effect of diseases outbreak due to insufficient health.
That may likely come from a water chemistry issue.
If you have a previous one then post the link here to look at.
Many times it's that certain important trace elements are depleted or far over the limits preventing corals from becoming beauties.

Give a rat's a** about the other guys comments, that is very helpful guidance you got, lol.

Also let's see your sump and filter arrangement.
In addition what I recommend to everyone is to start using Biodigest weekly or biweekly as I describe it in my e-book in great detail. In order to get a jump start, overdose Biodigest 3-4times on the first day.

Do you have PH curves for the tank?
As well, how do you maintain the tank with ALK,CA and MG? Dosing, reactor etc.?

Is my icp from April. https://www.triton-lab.de/en/showroom/aquarium/auswertung-b/icp-oes/56230/ -- You will see elevated aluminum. I had a marine pure brick and since removed it after this test.

Your ebook and thread is why I tried dosing the bacteria!

I dose brs 2 part for alk and cal. I also do 2ml of red sea reef energy daily. I don't dose both parts on the same day though, A one day and B the next. That is it for dosing.

I don't track PH... but I have a apex I'm getting from a local and forum legend on Saturday

Here is the sump. Drain of on the left return on the right. Standard skimmer chamber using the skimz sm161 skimmer. Then we have a Santa Monica algae scrubber running opposite of the tank lights for 7 hours and only running 2 of the 4 lights. That chamber also holds pond matrix and miracle mud (I see no value in this mud, removing it when I switch to the new tank). Then a simple return section where my ATO sensor, return pump, carbon reactor (not running) and dosing lines are.

Edit: I also run pinkie filter pads when I feel like it pretty much lol.

 

[Miles Williams]

Great build!!!
Just got through going through the whole thread to get to the last page and realize I just saw those picks on Houston Reef Connection page on facebook! LOL
Fellow houstonian!

 

[AngryOwl]

Great build!!!
Just got through going through the whole thread to get to the last page and realize I just saw those picks on Houston Reef Connection page on facebook! LOL
Fellow houstonian!

;Hilarious Welcome to the build! Hope you enjoyed it so far, way more to come!!

On that note I should update what I still need to get this tank up and running...

Yesterday I got my light fixture in. I went with the ATI Sunpower High Output 8 bulb fixture. I have a habit of going to BulkReefSupply and checking out their open box deals... while doing that I randomly saw that fixture for $475 (regular price $791)... but it was given a 'D' rating, so I was nervous. Upon receiving it, it appears to have everything required and the only damage I see is some dented reflectors. Replacements are $18 each so it would be about $150 to replace them. This is a low priority for the future. Also there was an issue with the shipping label that caused it to get sent back to BRS. They called me up and let me know what was going on and then gave me 2000 BRS rewards points ($20 value). Amazing customer support.

Here is the remaining list:
T5 Bulbs ($250) - Should I go Giesemann or ATI?
Reef Octopus Varios 8 Return pump ($375)
Plumbing ($250?)
Canopy ($250ish?)
Gyre 250, pump only ($160)
New Rock ($300)
Total Estimated - $1585

I have the rock I ordered from BillysReefConnection but I change my mind and I want to go with some Haitian rock.

I also need sand but didn't feel like looking up how much it will cost.

Another side note is I am looking to add more stages to my RODI. I'm going to grab the 3 stage upgrade from BRS to have separate canisters for DI resin. I already have a 4 stage system so I will take the extra canister and put another carbon block. Lastly I want to add a sediment filter to run on my freshly mixed saltwater. I saw this idea from BRS and it blew my mind lol.

 

[AngryOwl]

Let's also take this time to appreciate Charlie. It seems like not many people truly enjoy their fish and just want them to do their job on the reef.. but I love all my fish and they are just as enjoyable for me

 

[sam.veilleux30]

Nice build Mr owl!
I really like the look of the peninsula, more place for the corals.
Sorry for your frags. Sps can be tricky, i just had a massive event of stn on acros i had for 6 years with no problems.
Just 2 small pieces remaining intact for now.
Try easier sps (monti digitata, seriatopora...) and once you can grow them try something more difficult.
One of the reasons for their demise could be that your parameters (without being off the chart) might be too different than the tank in wich they were before.
You said something about instant success... maybe you should try INSTANT OCEAN! (joke)
.1 for your po4 is high, try keeping it to .03ish.

Following along and good luck in the upcoming switch.

 

[AngryOwl]

Nice build Mr owl!
I really like the look of the peninsula, more place for the corals.
Sorry for your frags. Sps can be tricky, i just had a massive event of stn on acros i had for 6 years with no problems.
Just 2 small pieces remaining intact for now.
Try easier sps (monti digitata, seriatopora...) and once you can grow them try something more difficult.
One of the reasons for their demise could be that your parameters (without being off the chart) might be too different than the tank in wich they were before.
You said something about instant success... maybe you should try INSTANT OCEAN! (joke)
.1 for your po4 is high, try keeping it to .03ish.

Following along and good luck in the upcoming switch.

That might be the missing piece! I should have started with instant ocean ;Hilarious That's what those guys must be doing! I actually started with Kent salt then switched to Fritz blue box and now I'm doing Red Sea blue bucket which I like the best so far!

You make fair points, I was thinking maybe it is an acclimation issue as you described. I plan to raise my Alk to 8.2 to match the Red Sea salt. This might help since most people run in the 8-9 range.

Maybe I am thinking about this wrong so let me know your thoughts... but based on what I have read and watched I have gathered that NO3 and PO4 provide essential nutrients for coral health. I think of this as food... they consume it out of the water to maintain health just like I eat Chickfila to maintain my body. Let's say you put me in a room with only 1 spicy chicken sandwich... well I could consume that pretty fast! After I eat that sandwich I don't have any other nutrient resources left so I die. But lets put me in that same room and put in 1000 sandwiches... well now I have a stable source of nutrients and based on my metabolism I decide at which rate I consume them. If I consume 50 per day but someone is putting back 50 into the room, I will always have 1000 with me. In this example I'm choosing what I consume for my needs and the remaining sandwiches don't cause me any harm...

Does this make sense? If I went from low nutrient (1 sandwich) to high nutrient (1000 sandwiches), I would be better off not worse off. Now while I was typing this I realized you can make this same argument with the other elements in different ways... so maybe I'm flawed here. Someone set me straight ;Joyful

Also, welcome to the build!

 

[sam.veilleux30]

You're right about n and p being essential for corals. There is something of an equilibrium to maintain between them, when someone reach 0 troubles appear. The following helped me to understand it. It was on a thread on r2r, not sure wich one.
Not from me, i saved the text to keep it at hand. This might give you some hints.


hND*YRjx (jlaquatics)

You have relatively high nitrate and undetectable amounts of phosphate and lowish alk. That is not a good mix, it either needs to be "high nitrate, high phosphate and high alk" or "low nitrate, low phosphate and low alk".


Keeping two of these low and one of them high is stressful for corals. When zooxanthellae (zoox) have access to high amounts of nitrate but low amounts of phosphate, they starve the coral of phosphate by taking up all the phosphate that enters to the coral cells. This cause coral cells starve and they either expel zooxanthellae, bleach, starve and die, or they die because of phosphate starvation before they can expel the zoox. First option causes STN, second option causes RTN.


Same thing happens in reverse direction when nitrate is low and phosphate is high.


And this all connects to alk based on the demand of corals to zooxanthellae, as well as N and P.


If you have high nitrate and phosphate, you should also have high alk. This way corals can built their skeleton faster. When they built skeleton faster, they can use higher amount of N and P, and the carbon provided by zoox to built soft tissue faster.


If you have high nitrate and phosphate but low alk. Rate at which corals grow gets limited by alk. This causes a surplus of N and P, and the carbon fixed by zoox, simply because corals do not have enough new skeleton to use these for building more soft tissue. This causes the intercellular zoox numbers to increase and coral browns. Corals can live browned, but in extreme cases corals will bleach because number of intercellular zoox gets to high that they start to starve the coral cells. So they expel zoox.


If you have low nitrate and/or phosphate but high alk. This time corals do not have enough N and P to built soft tissue. Coral cell and the intercellular zoox need to compete for the same limited amount of N and P. This means one of the two would eventually starve. If coral cells starve, they expell zoox and bleach. This most easily happens at the tips (or places that get the most light) since those are the parts of the coral that is growing the most, and so has the highest demand for N and P. That is why increasing alk too fast causes burned tips, it is simply this evet happining locally. In extreme cases a coral can completely burn, or in other words, bleach. On the other hand, If zoox starve, corals get pale as they are forced to live with a very low number of zoox. N and P cannot simply support more zoox. If you do this moderately, you get a zeovit tank. In such a tank, there is so little zoox in corals that you simply see the fluorescent proteins of coral against their white skeletons, this is what that makes them very brightly colored. I believe they also produce more fluorescent proteins to protect what little number of zoox they have.


SPS corals are particularly sensitive to N, P and alk because amount of soft tissue they can have is limited by amount of skeleton. LPS can, to some extend, have more soft tissue with same amount of skeleton. A hammer for instance, can have a bigger polyp with more tentacles while keeping the its corallite about the same size. Softies dont even need skeleton, so they are far less sensetive to interplay of alk N and P.


Long story sort, in either case, you should not limit the growth of corals. If one of the N, P or alk become limiting (keep in mind if one is excess it means other became limited), it causes coral and zoox to start competing for the limitted resources. When this happens, there is no point of having a symbiotic relationship. If zoox competing with the coral cells for resources, it is no longer a symbiont but a parasite. This results in coral cells to expel zoox and bleach

 

[AngryOwl]

You're right about n and p being essential for corals. There is something of an equilibrium to maintain between them, when someone reach 0 troubles appear. The following helped me to understand it. It was on a thread on r2r, not sure wich one.
Not from me, i saved the text to keep it at hand. This might give you some hints.


hND*YRjx (jlaquatics)

You have relatively high nitrate and undetectable amounts of phosphate and lowish alk. That is not a good mix, it either needs to be "high nitrate, high phosphate and high alk" or "low nitrate, low phosphate and low alk".


Keeping two of these low and one of them high is stressful for corals. When zooxanthellae (zoox) have access to high amounts of nitrate but low amounts of phosphate, they starve the coral of phosphate by taking up all the phosphate that enters to the coral cells. This cause coral cells starve and they either expel zooxanthellae, bleach, starve and die, or they die because of phosphate starvation before they can expel the zoox. First option causes STN, second option causes RTN.


Same thing happens in reverse direction when nitrate is low and phosphate is high.


And this all connects to alk based on the demand of corals to zooxanthellae, as well as N and P.


If you have high nitrate and phosphate, you should also have high alk. This way corals can built their skeleton faster. When they built skeleton faster, they can use higher amount of N and P, and the carbon provided by zoox to built soft tissue faster.


If you have high nitrate and phosphate but low alk. Rate at which corals grow gets limited by alk. This causes a surplus of N and P, and the carbon fixed by zoox, simply because corals do not have enough new skeleton to use these for building more soft tissue. This causes the intercellular zoox numbers to increase and coral browns. Corals can live browned, but in extreme cases corals will bleach because number of intercellular zoox gets to high that they start to starve the coral cells. So they expel zoox.


If you have low nitrate and/or phosphate but high alk. This time corals do not have enough N and P to built soft tissue. Coral cell and the intercellular zoox need to compete for the same limited amount of N and P. This means one of the two would eventually starve. If coral cells starve, they expell zoox and bleach. This most easily happens at the tips (or places that get the most light) since those are the parts of the coral that is growing the most, and so has the highest demand for N and P. That is why increasing alk too fast causes burned tips, it is simply this evet happining locally. In extreme cases a coral can completely burn, or in other words, bleach. On the other hand, If zoox starve, corals get pale as they are forced to live with a very low number of zoox. N and P cannot simply support more zoox. If you do this moderately, you get a zeovit tank. In such a tank, there is so little zoox in corals that you simply see the fluorescent proteins of coral against their white skeletons, this is what that makes them very brightly colored. I believe they also produce more fluorescent proteins to protect what little number of zoox they have.


SPS corals are particularly sensitive to N, P and alk because amount of soft tissue they can have is limited by amount of skeleton. LPS can, to some extend, have more soft tissue with same amount of skeleton. A hammer for instance, can have a bigger polyp with more tentacles while keeping the its corallite about the same size. Softies dont even need skeleton, so they are far less sensetive to interplay of alk N and P.


Long story sort, in either case, you should not limit the growth of corals. If one of the N, P or alk become limiting (keep in mind if one is excess it means other became limited), it causes coral and zoox to start competing for the limitted resources. When this happens, there is no point of having a symbiotic relationship. If zoox competing with the coral cells for resources, it is no longer a symbiont but a parasite. This results in coral cells to expel zoox and bleach

Now this makes sense! But it begs the questions... what is high PO4? What is high NO3? And what is high enough ALK to run 'high' NO3 and PO4?

It would be interesting to see if getting up to 8.2 alk would make a difference

My chickfila example needs a few refinements!

 

[AngryOwl]

Hey guys, I'm thinking about using a giant arm mount (a sort of floating canopy) instead of building a canopy. But I need help! I started a thread (link below) where you can find more details and provide feedback. Engineers and 80/20 experts NEEDED!

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/80-20-lighting-mount-help.488383/

 

[AngryOwl]

Hey Angry, you saw my tank pictures so far, right.
Since the last picture colors are improving still, and measured yesterday my Po4 and Nitrates.
Po4 was 0.25 (yeah right,lol) and No3 around 6-8..............
My Po4 is high yes, but that's because I replaced all my Bio Pellets and basically have to restart the reactor and it's pellets since the previous ones are not available anymore. But long story short, your issue is partially related to Nutrients but the key issue is somewhere else.

From experience I would tackle your issue with an ICP test first!!! Just to rule out the chemistry side for not healthy corals. The issue is likely an effect of diseases outbreak due to insufficient health.
That may likely come from a water chemistry issue.
If you have a previous one then post the link here to look at.
Many times it's that certain important trace elements are depleted or far over the limits preventing corals from becoming beauties.

Give a rat's a** about the other guys comments, that is very helpful guidance you got, lol.

Also let's see your sump and filter arrangement.
In addition what I recommend to everyone is to start using Biodigest weekly or biweekly as I describe it in my e-book in great detail. In order to get a jump start, overdose Biodigest 3-4times on the first day.

Do you have PH curves for the tank?
As well, how do you maintain the tank with ALK,CA and MG? Dosing, reactor etc.?

Hooked up the apex today, got the ph probe calibrated and its showing 7.6... now I sit back and wait for everyone to tell me to fix it

I'm surprised my ph is that low since we have pretty high ceilings and there is good air movement over the tank. I guess one option to start would be running my skimmer line outside. I'll need help on how to configure this on the skimz sm161!