Annoying dirty sand bed issue in my 180

Neoalchemist · Apr 27, 2019

AtlCPA said:
Certainly possible although would the high nitrates I had make it less likely to be dino’s?

Also, I was clearly putting water with too high TDS with my water changes. I got new filters for my RODI yesterday and started a 10% water change yesterday and will do several more today.

I’ll let you know how it goes.

You mentioned bringing no3 down rather quickly(a potential trigger)also Any carbon dosing can bring them on. (it shifts the nutrient consumption from algae to bacteria and other protists)
Also, sorry if I missed it, but what is your po4 level and what test kit are you using?

AtlCPA · Apr 27, 2019

Neoalchemist said:
You mentioned bringing no3 down rather quickly(a potential trigger)also Any carbon dosing can bring them on. (it shifts the nutrient consumption from algae to bacteria and other protists)
Also, sorry if I missed it, but what is your po4 level and what test kit are you using?

My sand bed was dirty when my nitrates were at 50. I did bring them down quickly, now between 5-10, but the problem existed before I brought the nitrates down.

Phosphates are pretty low if my Red Sea Phosphate kit is correct....last measurement was .04ppm.

I’m hoping it was the high TDS RODI water I was adding with the increased water changes making it worse.

AtlCPA · Apr 27, 2019

One more thing to add. The brown diatoms or whatever it is are on the glass as well. Not sure if that makes a difference for the type dino’s you mentioned

Neoalchemist · Apr 28, 2019

AtlCPA said:
One more thing to add. The brown diatoms or whatever it is are on the glass as well. Not sure if that makes a difference for the type dino’s you mentioned

No way to know without a microscope, but a dino is a dino. They all suck. Some behave slightly different than others but in the end the treatment is much the same. True, amphidimium dinos "usually" stay on and in the sand. But most who wipe those out find other species attempt to take hold in the empty niche.
Getting an id first is still the best way to know where to send your horses first to achieve fast initial results.
If you have a powerful uv sterilizer, you may be able to get the process started right away. But for uv to be truly affective it has to be at least 1 watt for every 3 gallons, it needs to pull water from and return it to the display, and run at a moderate to slow flow, say 200 or so gph.
But I would work on the id before throwing any money at it.

Neoalchemist · Apr 28, 2019

AtlCPA said:
My sand bed was dirty when my nitrates were at 50. I did bring them down quickly, now between 5-10, but the problem existed before I brought the nitrates down.

Phosphates are pretty low if my Red Sea Phosphate kit is correct....last measurement was .04ppm.

I’m hoping it was the high TDS RODI water I was adding with the increased water changes making it worse.

.04 on that test could easily be zero.
I hope the ro/di change solves the problem.
Go for a big manual removal session with the new water and wait and see.

Neoalchemist · Apr 28, 2019

AtlCPA said:
My sand bed was dirty when my nitrates were at 50. I did bring them down quickly, now between 5-10, but the problem existed before I brought the nitrates down.

Phosphates are pretty low if my Red Sea Phosphate kit is correct....last measurement was .04ppm.

I’m hoping it was the high TDS RODI water I was adding with the increased water changes making it worse.

Can you possibly take a cup or bowl,something with a white bottom and take a generous sample of the offender with a bit of sand. Fill the cup the rest of the waywith tank water. Then stir vigorously, wait five minutes for it to settle then take a pic and post it?

AtlCPA · Apr 28, 2019

Neoalchemist said:
Can you possibly take a cup or bowl,something with a white bottom and take a generous sample of the offender with a bit of sand. Fill the cup the rest of the waywith tank water. Then stir vigorously, wait five minutes for it to settle then take a pic and post it?

I’ve got to head to the airport in about an hour and will be gone until Wednesday night.

I did a 3, 10% water changes again yesterday over the course of the day, vacuuming the sand bed on the first one.

Sand stayed clean yesterday, but the kicker will be what it looks like tonight. I’ll have to get my wife to check.

It doesn’t have the Dino trait of the sand is perfectly clean in the morning when the lights are off. If by tonight the sand is covered again, I think you're going to be correct on the Dino’s.

If it’s still bad when I get back, i’ll put some sand in a bowl like you suggest. Thanks for the comments

Neoalchemist · Apr 28, 2019

AtlCPA said:
I’ve got to head to the airport in about an hour and will be gone until Wednesday night.

I did a 3, 10% water changes again yesterday over the course of the day, vacuuming the sand bed on the first one.

Sand stayed clean yesterday, but the kicker will be what it looks like tonight. I’ll have to get my wife to check.

It doesn’t have the Dino trait of the sand is perfectly clean in the morning when the lights are off. If by tonight the sand is covered again, I think you're going to be correct on the Dino’s.

If it’s still bad when I get back, i’ll put some sand in a bowl like you suggest. Thanks for the comments

Good luck on your trip and let us know how things are when you get back.

Surfandturf · Apr 28, 2019

I didn't have dions, but I dealt with a nasty algae outbreak a few months ago. I was overfeeding and failed to compensate. I honestly never fear with an algae issue like this before. I thought that I would have to tear my tank down. What did i do? I doesed fluconazole and Nopox concurrently. It worked wonders. None of my corals died, no fish, no inverts. You may want to give it a try.

AtlCPA · May 2, 2019

Neoalchemist said:
Can you possibly take a cup or bowl,something with a white bottom and take a generous sample of the offender with a bit of sand. Fill the cup the rest of the waywith tank water. Then stir vigorously, wait five minutes for it to settle then take a pic and post it?

Ok, so I can back last night and to my surprise the sand looked pretty good. Not totally clean, but way less dirty than I expected after 4 days.

Then I did a 5% water change and total it looks horrible again.

Here is the pic in a white cup shaken and waited 5 minutes like you said. What’s not reflected in the picture is how dirty the water really looks.

What you can see is all the floating dino’s or diatoms.

Let me know what you think.

Neoalchemist · May 4, 2019

AtlCPA said:
Ok, so I can back last night and to my surprise the sand looked pretty good. Not totally clean, but way less dirty than I expected after 4 days.

Then I did a 5% water change and total it looks horrible again.

Here is the pic in a white cup shaken and waited 5 minutes like you said. What’s not reflected in the picture is how dirty the water really looks.

What you can see is all the floating dino’s or diatoms.

Let me know what you think.

Hard to tell from this pic although I do see what looks like some dino stands. Did you see the rust colored stuff re grouping or coming back together in the cup or in your water change bucket?
This simple quick test works better for the water, rock or glass born dinos and not as well for amphidimium which live in the sand.
Without a microscope your best bet is the test outlined in the first post of this thread https://www.reef2reef.com/index.php?posts/3578648

If you have a Hobbytown near you they carry a $40 microscope set that's more than adequate to id. Ends up being quite fun too.

AtlCPA · May 4, 2019

Neoalchemist said:
Hard to tell from this pic although I do see what looks like some dino stands. Did you see the rust colored stuff re grouping or coming back together in the cup or in your water change bucket?
This simple quick test works better for the water, rock or glass born dinos and not as well for amphidimium which live in the sand.
Without a microscope your best bet is the test outlined in the first post of this thread https://www.reef2reef.com/index.php?posts/3578648

If you have a Hobbytown near you they carry a $40 microscope set that's more than adequate to id. Ends up being quite fun too.

I ordered a microscope on amazon and it should be here today. I’ll let you know what I figure out