Another Cyano, Diatom, Dino Question

[JPK_Esquire]

I've been battling whatever the hell this is for about 4 months now. It definitely gets knocked back when I do a complete blackout. After it comes back following the blackout (and ordinarily) it goes about 85% away at night and comes right back the next day. I've tried to cutting my lighting schedule wayyyyy back, I've tried cutting my feeding way back and also increasing it. Chemi-clean didn't help. My initial thought was Dinos because its been so hard to get rid of them. I DID get a microscope and it looked like there was maybe a few Dinos swimming around, but with THIS much brown I would expect a ton of them swimming around. Also, my phosphates are running like .12 (FTR: I think the problems may have begun when I was running a crazy amount of phosphate removal mediums, which also makes me think maybe Dinos). The pictures though look much more like diatoms because it is more brown; however, tank is about 13 months old. Also, I would have thought Diatoms would have just run their course by now. I am running a UV full time, but its the small one made for the Biocube. I recently bought at TurboTwist 3x, which is the next attempt at this thing. Stats on the tank are below, any help anyone can provide is much appreciated.

32g Biocube (14 months old), PH: 8.1, Alk: 7.2, Calc. 400, Mg: 1300, PO4 .12-.15. I've got 9 LPS corals, a yellow tang (he's only a temporary inhabitant) and six-line wrasse.

 

[Spare time]

Im pretty sure those are diatoms. Your phosphates are a little high so that is probably not helping. You could try some dr tims waste away or similar (if you turn off uv) or just use the proper amount of phosphate media. If you see snot like strings with bubbles on the rocks and what not then I would say dinos.

What are your nitrates out?

 

[JPK_Esquire]

Im pretty sure those are diatoms. Your phosphates are a little high so that is probably not helping. You could try some dr tims waste away or similar (if you turn off uv) or just use the proper amount of phosphate media. If you see snot like strings with bubbles on the rocks and what not then I would say dinos.

What are your nitrates out?

Thanks. I just ordered some Dr. Tim’s and we’ll give it a try. There are some places that can get stringy and snot-like (another reason I thought maybe Dinos upfront), but haven’t ever really seen the bubbles.

Nitrates stay between 10-15. I started using a little GFO again last week, so I’ll check the PO4 and NO3 again tomorrow.

 

[Spare time]

Wait till after the dr tims to load up more gfo. Dr tims waste away will act as competition for nitrate and phosphate. I am a big fan of biological means to control biological problems as microbial diversity tends to be a good thing

 

[JPK_Esquire]

Wait till after the dr tims to load up more gfo. Dr tims waste away will act as competition for nitrate and phosphate. I am a big fan of biological means to control biological problems as microbial diversity tends to be a good thing

Thanks. I tried dosing Microbacter 7 and Vibrant both. No change!

 

[Spare time]

Thanks. I tried dosing Microbacter 7 and Vibrant both. No change!

Also, what light are you using?

 

[Dan_P]

I've been battling whatever the hell this is for about 4 months now. It definitely gets knocked back when I do a complete blackout. After it comes back following the blackout (and ordinarily) it goes about 85% away at night and comes right back the next day. I've tried to cutting my lighting schedule wayyyyy back, I've tried cutting my feeding way back and also increasing it. Chemi-clean didn't help. My initial thought was Dinos because its been so hard to get rid of them. I DID get a microscope and it looked like there was maybe a few Dinos swimming around, but with THIS much brown I would expect a ton of them swimming around. Also, my phosphates are running like .12 (FTR: I think the problems may have begun when I was running a crazy amount of phosphate removal mediums, which also makes me think maybe Dinos). The pictures though look much more like diatoms because it is more brown; however, tank is about 13 months old. Also, I would have thought Diatoms would have just run their course by now. I am running a UV full time, but its the small one made for the Biocube. I recently bought at TurboTwist 3x, which is the next attempt at this thing. Stats on the tank are below, any help anyone can provide is much appreciated.

32g Biocube (14 months old), PH: 8.1, Alk: 7.2, Calc. 400, Mg: 1300, PO4 .12-.15. I've got 9 LPS corals, a yellow tang (he's only a temporary inhabitant) and six-line wrasse.

How did you take the sample for the microscope examination?

 

[JPK_Esquire]

Also, what light are you using?

Just the stock ones that come with the Biocube. I run the blues (L3 from like 9-8), L1 and L2 11-4.

 

[JPK_Esquire]

How did you take the sample for the microscope examination?

One way I just took a dropper right into the sand bed. Another I scooped some of the sand bed into a Petri dish and then used a dropper out of the Petri dish to drop it on the slide. Is there a better way?

 

[Dan_P]

One way I just took a dropper right into the sand bed. Another I scooped some of the sand bed into a Petri dish and then used a dropper out of the Petri dish to drop it on the slide. Is there a better way?

When you took a scoop of sand and placed it in the petri dish, did you observe the condition of the sand? Was it free flowing or stuck together? Were the grains adhering to each other?

 

[K9DoberMan]

Those seem diatoms for sure, and usually the main cause for those in a reef tank with more than 3 months old, is silicates from the water you are inserting. Be it through top off water or water changes. I bet that your RO 4th/5th stage, with should be a NPS resin, is saturated and needs to be changed. If you don’t have one, buy it ASAP.

 

[taricha]

Another sampling method for dinos /cyano is to suck up some brown sandy stuff and dispense into a cup and shake it a bit. the brown material will often settle and coalesce together in 5-15 minutes. Take the dropper and pull the more concentrated brown material from the cup and put on a slide. Should be pretty clear that what you see in the scope is your actual brown photosynthetic stuff. (BTW, the color in those pics could easily be dinos or diatoms - but probably not much cyano)

 

[JPK_Esquire]

Another sampling method for dinos /cyano is to suck up some brown sandy stuff and dispense into a cup and shake it a bit. the brown material will often settle and coalesce together in 5-15 minutes. Take the dropper and pull the more concentrated brown material from the cup and put on a slide. Should be pretty clear that what you see in the scope is your actual brown photosynthetic stuff. (BTW, the color in those pics could easily be dinos or diatoms - but probably not much cyano)

Thank you so much I’ll do this and try.

 

[JPK_Esquire]

Those seem diatoms for sure, and usually the main cause for those in a reef tank with more than 3 months old, is silicates from the water you are inserting. Be it through top off water or water changes. I bet that your RO 4th/5th stage, with should be a NPS resin, is saturated and needs to be changed. If you don’t have one, buy it ASAP.

So my resin maybe did need to be replaced (1-2 TDS on the monitor) recently did change maybe two weeks ago. I get a brow residue on the inside of the salt mixing container. I use Tropic Marin Pro (i.e., not using Reef Crystals so i don’t think it’s their known issue). The brown looks like brown algae, but I’ve completely cleaned and scrubbed the container, completely covered it with a dark blanket to get zero light and I still get the brown stuff back a few weeks later.
Any help is greatly appreciated it, as i have a new 180g tank that is getting that salt water as well.

 

[JPK_Esquire]

When you took a scoop of sand and placed it in the petri dish, did you observe the condition of the sand? Was it free flowing or stuck together? Were the grains adhering to each other?

I just took a new sample. Seems more stuck together.

 

[JPK_Esquire]

Finally got some good video (holy **** is that hard). Any ideas on one these little jerks are (apologies for shakes hands).

 

[taricha]

Great microscope work.
Large-Cell Amphidinium dinos.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dinoflagellate-identification-guide.671466/

 

[Spare time]

Interesting that you have dinos with waste levels where they are. Typically dinos come from having too little waste. I wonder what is causing them this time.

 

[JPK_Esquire]

Great microscope work.
Large-Cell Amphidinium dinos.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dinoflagellate-identification-guide.671466/

Thank You Thank You. After reading that post I am CONVINCED that is what they are. Matches EVERYTHING in that description (low bubbles, no/low toxin, tank position bottom, and brown dusty appearance resembling diatoms).

NOW.....how do I beat these little b@st@rds?

 

[Dan_P]

I just took a new sample. Seems more stuck together.

Try to find out why the sand grains are sticking together. In my system, I have GHA that grows in the substrate, and when that happens, the substrate becomes a meeting place for diatoms and Prorocentrum. It is not unusual in my system for macro algae to become covered with Prorocentrum.

I wonder if GHA, maybe weak, nutrient deprived GHA, is sometimes the driving factor in the accumulation of dinoflagellates sand and rock surfaces. Unless you observe the sand grains with a microscope, you might attribute the mess on the sand to dinoflagellates.