Another Cyano Frustration Post

[FriendoFish]

Hello! I have had my tank for a little over 2 years now and it’s had its ups and downs with one constant: Cyanobacteria. I have a Red Sea Reefer 170, and the only fish I have ever had in it are 2 clowns and a 3 year old firefish (who died a few months ago). I have a clean up crew consisting of a few hermit crabs, 4 (I think) nassarius snails, and 5 trochus snails. I also have some bristleworms and asterina stars that I got as hitchhikers on my live rock. I do 10% water changes every week.

As filtration, I currently have filter floss and chemipure blue in a filter cup along with extra live rock in my sump. I change out about half of the floss every week. I also have a Bubble Magus Curve 5 skimmer, although it stopped working last week and I’ve been trying to fix it. However, this issue has been going on basically since I’ve had the tank so I don’t think that’s the issue.

I will say I feel I have perpetually high nitrates. Usually around 20ppm, but I wasn’t too worried because everything seemed fine except for the cyano. I did get the tank and live rock second hand, so I thought that maybe there was some additional nitrates coming off the live rock causing the cyano. But I feel like after 2 years it should be settled? I have tried cutting down on my feeding but that didn’t seem to help much.

I will say that this is my first saltwater tank, so I feel like I am still a newbie. I have tried doing research but I can’t figure out what I’m doing wrong. I not necessarily always been the most attentive reefer, as my parents watched my tank while I was away at school, but now that I’ve graduated I’m really trying to make my tank the best it can be. Sorry for the length of this post, but thanks in advance for any help you can offer .

 

[Reefer Matt Verified Media Partner]

Search results for query: Cyano

www.reef2reef.com

 

[PBar]

Hello,
could please indicate if you have any corals in the tank?
Other than that, a picture of the full tank would be helpful.

Don’t worry, cyano is boring but not difficult to deal (depending on the answer, quite easy actually).

Cheers!

 

[Sdot]

I posted this to another thread, point is the same:



My brotha... boy do i feel your pain. I have dealt with cyano over the past year.... yes a whole ****ing year. Thankfully i have gotten past it. Many talk about using chemicals to rid it from the tank, they do work...however its always lead to other issues imo. This is what ive learned about cyano and dino.....but can be applied to many of the pest which may land in our slice of the ocean. When many say its based on zero nutrients... or nutrients out of whack.... this is wrong (Plenty examples of people running low or zero levels of phos and nitrate... yet dont have these issues).

We introduce these pest in our aquarium.... indirectly. Conditions allow the pest to thrive to levels that are undesirable (ie: low nutrients or out of whack conditions often repeated as culprits to these issues). What allowed me to beat cyano....were pods. Interestly enough, Ryan from BRS recently talked about this, its a good watch and i would recommend it. Many aquarist report success dosing phyto, which help with coral growth, color and it supposed to out compete the nuisance algae and/or cyano. What i believe is happening, we are growing a diverse population of microfauna.

These animals are consuming these problems when their populations are large enough to do so. This is why phytoplankton dosing takes a while to work... it's not the phyto thats solving our problems, but the life its supporting that does. I also believe its the growing pod population that causes the corals to color up as well. They are feeding on the microscopic offspring of the pods, which is why phyto fed tanks tend to have better colors and pe. Last point, another reason why "established" aquariums rarely run into the issues that often plague newer tanks even when conditions are nowhere near ideal (crazy high or low phos and/or nitrate, which would cause issues in newer tanks), they have a mostly robust microfauna population.

Just my theory, but the evidence is more than anecdotal.



Fyi here is my tank prior:

Current:

 

[FriendoFish]

Hello,
could please indicate if you have any corals in the tank?
Other than that, a picture of the full tank would be helpful.

Don’t worry, cyano is boring but not difficult to deal (depending on the answer, quite easy actually).

Cheers!

Hi! Yes! I have a bunch of softies (zoas, ricordea, GSP, a leather) and some LPS (small frogspawn, 1 acan, 1 small galaxea). The LPS are new but the softies have been there for a while. I also forgot to mention that the cyano is almost entirely on the sand and glass. The rocks I pretty much have under control. This is less than 24 hours after a 25% water change (I did a larger one this week since my skimmer decided to stop working properly). Sorry I don’t have an orange lens to fix the blue thanks for the help!

 

[FriendoFish]

I posted this to another thread, point is the same:



My brotha... boy do i feel your pain. I have dealt with cyano over the past year.... yes a whole ****ing year. Thankfully i have gotten past it. Many talk about using chemicals to rid it from the tank, they do work...however its always lead to other issues imo. This is what ive learned about cyano and dino.....but can be applied to many of the pest which may land in our slice of the ocean. When many say its based on zero nutrients... or nutrients out of whack.... this is wrong (Plenty examples of people running low or zero levels of phos and nitrate... yet dont have these issues).

We introduce these pest in our aquarium.... indirectly. Conditions allow the pest to thrive to levels that are undesirable (ie: low nutrients or out of whack conditions often repeated as culprits to these issues). What allowed me to beat cyano....were pods. Interestly enough, Ryan from BRS recently talked about this, its a good watch and i would recommend it. Many aquarist report success dosing phyto, which help with coral growth, color and it supposed to out compete the nuisance algae and/or cyano. What i believe is happening, we are growing a diverse population of microfauna.

These animals are consuming these problems when their populations are large enough to do so. This is why phytoplankton dosing takes a while to work... it's not the phyto thats solving our problems, but the life its supporting that does. I also believe its the growing pod population that causes the corals to color up as well. They are feeding on the microscopic offspring of the pods, which is why phyto fed tanks tend to have better colors and pe. Last point, another reason why "established" aquariums rarely run into the issues that often plague newer tanks even when conditions are nowhere near ideal (crazy high or low phos and/or nitrate, which would cause issues in newer tanks), they have a mostly robust microfauna population.

Just my theory, but the evidence is more than anecdotal.

This is really interesting! I think I might try this.

 

[LeftyReefer]

So what kind of pods would eat the cyano and dinos best?

 

[Spare time]

Phosphate level?

 

[Sdot]

So what kind of pods would eat the cyano and dinos best?

Thats a great question, not sure. They are probably already in your tank, just need to grow the numbers. This is why i believe so many reef keepers are using the stuff...we believe its the phyto.... i believe its the animals feeding on the phyto and as a by-product they eliminate some of the nasties.

 

[Sdot]

Phosphate level?

Irrelevant imo....

 

[Spare time]

Irrelevant imo....

Not really, given that cyano, while not nitrogen limited in a tank due to their ability to fix nitrogen from the atmosphere, they can thrive in a high phosphate environment given lack of predation and possibly competition. Resources, competition, and predation are big factors in algae growth.

 

[PBar]

Hi! Yes! I have a bunch of softies (zoas, ricordea, GSP, a leather) and some LPS (small frogspawn, 1 acan, 1 small galaxea). The LPS are new but the softies have been there for a while. I also forgot to mention that the cyano is almost entirely on the sand and glass. The rocks I pretty much have under control. This is less than 24 hours after a 25% water change (I did a larger one this week since my skimmer decided to stop working properly). Sorry I don’t have an orange lens to fix the blue thanks for the help!

Hello,
thanks for the quick response. Couple of more info and we will get there
- When you change water, do you siphon the cyano out as well?
- To be sure, the new water is a RO-DI?
- Circulation (difficult one to judge from picture): do you have some “dead“ spots in the tank? Do you feel that you have “enough” circulation close to the sand?
- Last one, I promise, are you dosing anything other the fish food?

Cheers!

 

[Sdot]

Not really, given that cyano, while not nitrogen limited in a tank due to their ability to fix nitrogen from the atmosphere, they can thrive in a high phosphate environment given lack of predation and possibly competition. Resources, competition, and predation are big factors in algae growth.

He has cyano in his tank, he simply needs to out complete it, or boost pods that will either consume it or by product to prevent it from taking over. Ive had cyano with zero nutrients and have maintained elevated levels of phosphate with cyano nowhere to be found..... so its not relevant....what is relevant, figuring out ways to remove the cyano or reduce it to the point where its no longer an issue.

 

[FriendoFish]

Hello,
thanks for the quick response. Couple of more info and we will get there
- When you change water, do you siphon the cyano out as well?
- To be sure, the new water is a RO-DI?
- Circulation (difficult one to judge from picture): do you have some “dead“ spots in the tank? Do you feel that you have “enough” circulation close to the sand?
- Last one, I promise, are you dosing anything other the fish food?

Cheers!

no problem! I appreciate the help!
- Yes, though it is impossible to get all of it.
- Yes. From my LFS.
- I don’t think so? I get really confused when it comes to circulation stuff, but so far as I can tell pretty much the whole tank has some water movement (though some parts have more than others). The only parts that might not are the little caves in the live rock.
- No, unless reef chili once a week counts (spot fed to my corals). I feed New Life Spectrum pellets most days and like a quarter block-ish of frozen mysis once or twice a week. If I feed mysis, I won’t feed NLS that day.

 

[sixty_reefer]

He has cyano in his tank, he simply needs to out complete it, or boost pods that will either consume it or by product to prevent it from taking over. Ive had cyano with zero nutrients and have maintained elevated levels of phosphate with cyano nowhere to be found..... so its not relevant....what is relevant, figuring out ways to remove the cyano or reduce it to the point where its no longer an issue.

Name one pod that eats Cyanobacteria?

Cyanobacteria is still a type of photo autotrophic they need nutrients to be able to produce dna and rna. Wend you say you had zero nutrients you didn’t really had zero nutrients only at the inorganic level nitrates and phosphates, nitrogen and phosphates is still available In the system.

 

[Sdot]

Name one pod that eats Cyanobacteria?

Cyanobacteria is still a type of photo autotrophic they need nutrients to be able to produce dna and rna. Wend you say you had zero nutrients you didn’t really had zero nutrients only at the inorganic level nitrates and phosphates, nitrogen and phosphates is still available In the system.

I understand what you are trying to articulate.... however actual experience has told me the goal and point is to create a robust population of microfauna..... this is exactly the same reason why lots of "established" tanks dont seem to suffer these issues...at all. Its also the reason why my aquarium has higher nutrient levels than before yet i dont have the issue with cyano as i once did. You prolly want to visit my earlier post...

 

[Spare time]

He has cyano in his tank, he simply needs to out complete it, or boost pods that will either consume it or by product to prevent it from taking over. Ive had cyano with zero nutrients and have maintained elevated levels of phosphate with cyano nowhere to be found..... so its not relevant....what is relevant, figuring out ways to remove the cyano or reduce it to the point where its no longer an issue.

Not relevant? While I can't speak on your anecdote, of which could have been due to many things, what I mentioned is relevant. An overabundance of some necessary molecule, like phosphate, can promote cyano. Having a lower level of phosphate means competition increases for phosphate, thus decreasing the chance cyano can dominate the tank.

 

[Sdot]

Not relevant? While I can't speak on your anecdote, of which could have been due to many things, what I mentioned is relevant. An overabundance of some necessary molecule, like phosphate, can promote cyano. Having a lower level of phosphate means competition increases for phosphate, thus decreasing the chance cyano can dominate the tank.

Sorry my guy... i disagree completely. Cyano doesnt come from elevated levels of nutrients....they are introduced to the aquarium...to rid the tank...it must be eradicated. By your theory tanks with elevated levels of nutrients would have cyano.... thats not the case and you and i both know this. Ill let the pros explain it better...


Video here

 

[Spare time]

Sorry my guy... i disagree completely. Cyano doesnt come from elevated levels of nutrients....they are introduced to the aquarium...to rid the tank...it must be eradicated. By your theory tanks with elevated levels of nutrients would have cyano.... thats not the case and you and i both know this. Ill let the pros explain it better...


Video here

You do realize cyano is in every single reef tank right? Unless you dose antibiotics constantly, they are always there whether you see them or not. I am very much doubting you have ever used a microscope on a reef tank. And no, you did not read my post correctly. I did not say elevated phosphate that causes cyano, but it may help promote cyano, and it may be worse in tanks without much competition for phosphate (be that an over abundance of phosphate or a tank without much life in it. The key term is "helps." I didn't say all tanks like that would have cyano, just that they are favorable.

Also, the brs guys are not experts when it comes to microbiology or ecology. They are hobbyist making hypotheses. They are also not scientists, and these videos are not scientific.

My reasoning is based off of how ecology works, and also what actual aqaurium microbiologists have said (i.e. Dr Tim).

I'll be honest, I don't see merit in continuing this debate given your use of "absolute" style terms and that I need to go back and tell you what I did or didn't say in a previous reply. However, OP feel free to continue discussing with me if you want.

 

[Sdot]

You do realize cyano is in every single reef tank right? Unless you dose antibiotics constantly, they are always there whether you see them or not. I am very much doubting you have ever used a microscope on a reef tank. And no, you did not read my post correctly. I did not say elevated phosphate that causes cyano, but it may help promote cyano, and it may be worse in tanks without much competition for phosphate (be that an over abundance of phosphate or a tank without much life in it. The key term is "helps." I didn't say all tanks like that would have cyano, just that they are favorable.

Also, the brs guys are not experts when it comes to microbiology or ecology. They are hobbyist making hypotheses. They are also not scientists, and these videos are not scientific.

My reasoning is based off of how ecology works, and also what actual aqaurium microbiologists have said (i.e. Dr Tim).

I'll be honest, I don't see merit in continuing this debate given your use of "absolute" style terms and that I need to go back and tell you what I did or didn't say in a previous reply. However, OP feel free to continue discussing with me if you want.

I agree with your last paragraph...