Another cycling question thread

[sneakerhead]

Hello people!
90 gallon tank, Carib rock, added water and sand on Tuesday.
After talking to my LFS, I added Fritz turbo and 2 clownfish yesterday.

Checked parameters today, and everything is 0.
I understand that there needs to be some presence of ammonia for the cycle to start, should I let it continue and wait for some ammonia to build up from feeding/fish waste?

or should I intervene and try to dose small levels of ammonia(not sure how to but just wondering if that’s an option)

Thanks In advance

 

[LeftyReefer]

If you have fish in the tank already, they will provide ammonia to feed the bacteria/cycle.

I would not add any additional ammonia if you are cycling with fish in the tank.

I would not add any more fish and let the tank cycle with just the two clowns.

if anything, continue adding some of the bottled bacteria if you didn't add the entire bottle all at once.

 

[sneakerhead]

If you have fish in the tank already, they will provide ammonia to feed the bacteria/cycle.

I would not add any additional ammonia if you are cycling with fish in the tank.

Awesome! Thanks for the prompt reply.
as far as water change goes, 50% change once the cycle ends?
Anything else to watch out for?

 

[LeftyReefer]

Just keep an eye on your ammonia levels until the tank cycles.

When your tank is cycled, it will probably have high nitrates. You can do a large water change then to drop the nitrates back down. How large depends on how high the nitrates are after your cycle. A 50% water change will drop the nitrates by half.... so depending on the nitrate level, you can decide on how large of a water change to do.

 

[sneakerhead]

Just keep an eye on your ammonia levels until the tank cycles.

When your tank is cycled, it will probably have high nitrates. You can do a large water change then to drop the nitrates back down. How large depends on how high the nitrates are after your cycle. A 50% water change will drop the nitrates by half.... so depending on the nitrate level, you can decide on how large of a water change to do.

Thank you kind reefer!

 

[sneakerhead]

Gonna bring this thread back for some more questions.

I added fritz turbo 900 about 7 days ago and added 2 clownfishes around the same time.

Have been feeding the fish about 1/3 Mysis frozen cube every day.
Not running skimmer/reefmat.

ammonia/nitrites/nitrates are still 0, I'm assuming the cycle hasn't started.

should I start the skimmer? or do anything else, or just wait and see when the ammonia does spike?

Just keep an eye on your ammonia levels until the tank cycles.

When your tank is cycled, it will probably have high nitrates. You can do a large water change then to drop the nitrates back down. How large depends on how high the nitrates are after your cycle. A 50% water change will drop the nitrates by half.... so depending on the nitrate level, you can decide on how large of a water change to do.

 

[Garf]

Gonna bring this thread back for some more questions.

I added fritz turbo 900 about 7 days ago and added 2 clownfishes around the same time.

Have been feeding the fish about 1/3 Mysis frozen cube every day.
Not running skimmer/reefmat.

ammonia/nitrites/nitrates are still 0, I'm assuming the cycle hasn't started.

should I start the skimmer? or do anything else, or just wait and see when the ammonia does spike?

Your ammonia may not spike, If the bacteria are converting correctly with such a small bioload. The only evidence may be a gradual increase in nitrates. I always have some means of vigorous aeration, the skimmer is one way, you can just run it at a low level until organics build up, if you desire.

 

[sneakerhead]

Your ammonia may not spike, If the bacteria are converting correctly with such a small bioload. The only evidence may be a gradual increase in nitrates. I always have some means of vigorous aeration, the skimmer is one way, you can just run it at a low level until organics build up, if you desire.

Thanks for answering.

Just to clarify, will my ammonia not spike as much as I expect it to in a conventional cycle? Should I feed more aggressively?

What should I do from here on out; when is the first water change? when add more livestock etc?

Since I don't have the normal metrics right now like I did in past cycles( ammonia spike > nitrite spike > nitrate spike > cycle complete > water change)

 

[Garf]

Thanks for answering.

Just to clarify, will my ammonia not spike as much as I expect it to in a conventional cycle? Should I feed more aggressively?

What should I do from here on out; when is the first water change? when add more livestock etc?

Since I don't have the normal metrics right now like I did in past cycles( ammonia spike > nitrite spike > nitrate spike > cycle complete > water change)

You don’t want to intentionally increase ammonia with a fish in it. Just stock slowly, preferably from a trusted source. Fish desease is just a purchase away.

 

[sneakerhead]

You don’t want to intentionally increase ammonia with a fish in it. Just stock slowly, preferably from a trusted source. Fish desease is just a purchase away.

Awesome, I do totally understand. Having owned smaller reef tanks in the past, it truly is devastating losing livestock with fish disease.

 

[sneakerhead]

When should I add clean up crew?

 

[brandon429]

here is a neat way to see your tank

if you stacked in the normal degree of live rock that we see in tanks, then your tank can carry a full reef, by tomorrow, and it won't die. I can't count on nine hands how many 1 day full stocked tanks we've seen...Ike's thread is a big example one made from just bottle bac...about 6 fish, huge anemone, corals etc on day 1.

you're approaching 1 month

so adding a cuc or a fish or a coral isn't a stress to your biofilter, a whole reef wouldn't be.

the issue is fish disease. you are about to stock the reef without a plan for fallow and quarantine, so you must expect fish losses soon going off data in the disease forum for specific tanks like yours.

you would add in a clean up crew when they're factored into your disease plan, even though your tank can carry a clean up crew right now/lots of people add those

(the hidden lesson you have to get from studying the disease forum here is that adding anything wet to your tank violates disease transfer prevention protocols, clean up crews are wet, and from another tank with potential disease. you have a tank that gets to skip fallow prep due to the type of cycle you chose, so adding only quarantined items would support common fish disease protocols)


stated above, we see many times on the board where buying 1 item and adding it, wipes out a whole tank due to fish disease. less common in frags, and very common in CUC purchases or directly adding untreated fish.

you can move past cycle concerns now, no more testing for ammonia and nitrite are needed here for the life of the tank. you're square into fish disease research ability, your tank can probably carry ten fish but disease will kill them; not ammonia.

 

[G Santana]

I started my tank In similar fashion but with Fritzyme 9, I never had any amonia readings and the tank was cycled immediately.

 

[sneakerhead]

here is a neat way to see your tank

if you stacked in the normal degree of live rock that we see in tanks, then your tank can carry a full reef, by tomorrow, and it won't die. I can't count on nine hands how many 1 day full stocked tanks we've seen...Ike's thread is a big example one made from just bottle bac...about 6 fish, huge anemone, corals etc on day 1.

you're approaching 1 month

so adding a cuc or a fish or a coral isn't a stress to your biofilter, a whole reef wouldn't be.

the issue is fish disease. you are about to stock the reef without a plan for fallow and quarantine, so you must expect fish losses soon going off data in the disease forum for specific tanks like yours.

you would add in a clean up crew when they're factored into your disease plan, even though your tank can carry a clean up crew right now/lots of people add those

(the hidden lesson you have to get from studying the disease forum here is that adding anything wet to your tank violates disease transfer prevention protocols, clean up crews are wet, and from another tank with potential disease. you have a tank that gets to skip fallow prep due to the type of cycle you chose, so adding only quarantined items would support common fish disease protocols)


stated above, we see many times on the board where buying 1 item and adding it, wipes out a whole tank due to fish disease. less common in frags, and very common in CUC purchases or directly adding untreated fish.

you can move past cycle concerns now, no more testing for ammonia and nitrite are needed here for the life of the tank. you're square into fish disease research ability, your tank can probably carry ten fish but disease will kill them; not ammonia.

Thanks for the thoughtful response!

I have owned reef tanks in the past, and I understand fish diseases and how devastating they can be. Needless to say, I didn't account for keeping a QT, nor do I have space for one.

Ill do more research in the disease section and do my best to avoid future casualties.

 

[brandon429]

nano-reef.com is probably the largest collection of data you can find for folks skipping preps all the way. handy that at least a huge amount of free patterning exists for the combing in the matter of skipping preps, by keeping speciation limited.

their site is 20+ years of folks putting two clowns and a goby in a nano, and many get the fish to live as long as the tank

*in that history of logged nano tanks, bare white live rocks weren't the norm it was cured pet store rocks, some degree of maturity in the initial setup via live rock may or may not play a role in eventual disease expression.

but to work from opposites than what nano-reef has logged, larger tanks that employ mixed fish species from a pet store while skipping preps and likely starting with dry rock base will have a tougher time.

You could walk into a pet store, talk them somehow into giving you ten pounds of live rock from their actual display, pay them what it takes, and take home a couple clowns and a goby and add them to this recently cycled tank and have a very very good chance of disease control, that's matching what nr.com did all those years. handy to know options

any degree of cured live rock you can add is worth the hitchhikers because of the good things it brings in

 

[sneakerhead]

Hi Guys!
Small update, would love some feedback.

Around 10 days ago, I noticed my parameters were high.
API test
Ammonia was .25-.5ppm
Nitrites .25ppm
Nitrates 5-10ppm

I got a bottle of Fritz and added it with Stability(Seachem) as per LFS recommendations.

It has been 10 days since, and I haven't seen much of the parameters drop.

Should I do a water change? or let it ride as is for the next few weeks?

 

[brandon429]

Did that info prior not indicate your cycle is done

 

[brandon429]

Your tank was cycled four days after you set it up in Sept, the tests above you report are what running reefs report, you don’t have a cycle issue, the issue was adding fish with no disease preps


if they die around spring break time it’s not the cycle doing it

 

[sneakerhead]

Your tank was cycled four days after you set it up in Sept, the tests above you report are what running reefs report, you don’t have a cycle issue, the issue was adding fish with no disease preps


if they die around spring break time it’s not the cycle doing it

Those are two distinct topics.

the question is pertaining to nitrogen cycle, and it’s stages…. not fish disease. It’s best we stay on topic.

As far as I know, ammonia and nitrite being high aren't good signs for an active running reef.