Another cycling question

[Indytraveler83]

Hey everyone, sorry for yet another cycling question, but wanted to ask, given the very specific circumstances.

My tank (54 corner) has been up and running about a week. I set up with about 40 lbs of live sand and about 10 lbs of extra dry sand to get the depth I wanted. I’ve seen plenty of warnings since then that “live” sand isn’t really live. For what it’s worth, my sand was moist when I opened the package.

I then added 40-45 lbs of dry rock. As soon as the temperature stabilized, I got about 5 lbs of live rock (that was submerged in the sump of a lfs), and brought it home, keeping it wet.

A few days ago I was out of town, and bought another 6 lbs of live rock from an impressive lfs when I saw it had significant coralline algae on it, and possibly even some small feather dusters. When I places this live rock in the tank, I also disrupted two tiny brittle starfish that quickly scurried back into the rock as soon as it settled.

I’ve ghost feeding, and while I’ve tried to remain consistent, it’s admittedly hard to measure.

Using an api saltwater test kit, I’ve measured ph, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate every other day.

PH: staying steady at 8.0
Ammonia: in the first few days registered just a little (maybe .5ppm) then dropped back down to nothing.
Nitrite: stayed flat at 0
Nitrate: steady rise from 0 to 10 ppm

Not entirely sure what’s happening here... to me this is what a cycled tank looks like? But in a week?

Did I miss something here, or did I add enough live media to jump start/skip the cycle?

The only living creatures in the tank atm are the live rock hitch hikers.

Theories? How would you approach this? Would you add anything living or stay the course?

I’ve got one piece of live rock that appears to have imported some sort of nuisance algae on it along with some pods, but aside from the live rock, the tank appears pretty much as you’d expect from a week old tank.

 

[Alexreefer]

Yes, with the presence of nitrate and no nitrite than this is a good sign. Ammonia 0. Perfect. Your tank is cycled due to the live rock and the sand. You adding the rock with much coralline from an established tank is like the best bacteria you can get.

 

[W1ngz]

Sounds to me like that live rock gave you a head start. Don't worry about a little nuisance algae, it's likely to get worse before it gets better as things go through a natural process and the more extended cycle. If things seem to stay stable for a week or so, and the ammonia doesn't start to climb with consistent feeding, I'd start shopping for a small handful of snails and other clean-up critters, set up a quarantine tank, and get your first fish!

 

[Scotty Buttons]

You can test the cycle by adding some pure ammonia. Add 2ppm ammonia then test it after 24 hours. If there is no ammonia present at that point then your tank is cycled and can handle the future bio load.

 

[Indytraveler83]

Awesome. That’s all sort of what I was thinking had happened. Will have to try and confirm with ammonia.

The filtration I intend to run (for now anyways) arrives tomorrow. I’ll have to figure out what I want to add for my first inhabitants!

 

[ScottR]

You can test the cycle by adding some pure ammonia. Add 2ppm ammonia then test it after 24 hours. If there is no ammonia present at that point then your tank is cycled and can handle the future bio load.

+1
It may seem cycled but you never know. If you were to throw in a few fish, there’s no guarantee that the tank can handle the load so it’s best to check with added ammonia.

If it were me, I’d add in a CUC first. They’ll help to manage the tank and they’ll also add ammonia as the eat and process their food.

 

[Salty Lemon]

Sounds like you are off to a good start -- but still, please take it slow. Don't add too much too fast.

 

[Indytraveler83]

For sure going slow. I’m honestly a bit stumped on where to go. My plan has always been to start with CuC and inverts, then add fish once I know parameters are stable (which I certainly don’t know yet). I’m also not at all settled on a fish stocking plan, as I’m suddenly a month ahead of where I thought I was.

I also assumed I’d be in the middle of a significant algae bloom that would fuel the CuC, and that’s certainly not where I’m at. I really didn’t expect to jump the cycle like this, and don’t see a lot on how to handle it.

I’m going to assume that though it shows signs of being fully cycled, it’s not capable of supporting a high bioload yet.

What would you add? I was thinking of ordering a CuC from reefcleaners or a similar site. Maybe go with a half sized crew at first? I’ve been wanting to add some of the nicer slow growing macro algae to the tank, so maybe I can make an order of macro, snails and hermit crabs?

Anything else I should add or sub in/out to the above?

 

[Salty Lemon]

For sure going slow. I’m honestly a bit stumped on where to go. My plan has always been to start with CuC and inverts, then add fish once I know parameters are stable (which I certainly don’t know yet). I’m also not at all settled on a fish stocking plan, as I’m suddenly a month ahead of where I thought I was.

I also assumed I’d be in the middle of a significant algae bloom that would fuel the CuC, and that’s certainly not where I’m at. I really didn’t expect to jump the cycle like this, and don’t see a lot on how to handle it.

I’m going to assume that though it shows signs of being fully cycled, it’s not capable of supporting a high bioload yet.

What would you add? I was thinking of ordering a CuC from reefcleaners or a similar site. Maybe go with a half sized crew at first? I’ve been wanting to add some of the nicer slow growing macro algae to the tank, so maybe I can make an order of macro, snails and hermit crabs?

Anything else I should add or sub in/out to the above?

IMO, I only add CUC as needed. Don't add too much too soon. You need to make certain there is enough algae etc. to sustain all of them. I generally go a little bit at a time. A few snails and some hermit crabs will do fine to start with. If your nitrites/nitrates are high, don't add fish. If they are low, go out and buy a clownfish or two. They have thick slime coats, are relatively hearty, and everyone loves them.

 

[ScottR]

For sure going slow. I’m honestly a bit stumped on where to go. My plan has always been to start with CuC and inverts, then add fish once I know parameters are stable (which I certainly don’t know yet). I’m also not at all settled on a fish stocking plan, as I’m suddenly a month ahead of where I thought I was.

I also assumed I’d be in the middle of a significant algae bloom that would fuel the CuC, and that’s certainly not where I’m at. I really didn’t expect to jump the cycle like this, and don’t see a lot on how to handle it.

I’m going to assume that though it shows signs of being fully cycled, it’s not capable of supporting a high bioload yet.

What would you add? I was thinking of ordering a CuC from reefcleaners or a similar site. Maybe go with a half sized crew at first? I’ve been wanting to add some of the nicer slow growing macro algae to the tank, so maybe I can make an order of macro, snails and hermit crabs?

Anything else I should add or sub in/out to the above?

Have your lights gone live? If so, you’ll start to see algae as well as diatoms because of the sand. I like snails as they probably have lots to eat on the live rock. And they’ll help to clean the glass.

On a side note: when I set up my first aquarium, I used only live rock and live sand. The sand was wet as you mentioned. I never ever found ammonia in my tank. And NO2 was almost nothing. I first put in 2 turbo snails then added a cleaner shrimp. I fed frozen foods to the shrimp then added my fish in 2’s. Long story short, the live rock had a gorilla crab and it slowly ate all of my livestock before I finally caught it. Out of frustration I broke down the tank and upgraded using the same live rock: cooked version

Also, I added a vial of prodibio nitrifying bacteria to make sure I had the right type and amount of bacteria to break down the ammonia.

 

[W1ngz]

What would you add? I was thinking of ordering a CuC from reefcleaners or a similar site. Maybe go with a half sized crew at first? I’ve been wanting to add some of the nicer slow growing macro algae to the tank, so maybe I can make an order of macro, snails and hermit crabs?

Anything else I should add or sub in/out to the above?

Don't order a 'crew'. I'd pick and choose, or if you do choose a crew, get a small one. Most of the old logic of X numbers of snails and crabs per gallon is out of date, and just results in critters starving to death in your tank.

 

[Indytraveler83]

Yes, my lights went live as soon as I added the live rock. I wanted to be sure to develop anything on the rock that may have needed light (like beneficial algae or in the small chance some coral hitchhiked).

Super scary to hear about the gorilla crabs! I know there’s always a chance I picked up some bad hitchhikers as well; but it’s why I bought rock from the most reputable places I could find, so I can at least minimize that chance.

I really need to figure out a reasonable place to order livestock, especially the inverts. I’ve got one, maybe two stores with in?driving range that I’m willing to buy from (our PetCo has a catastrophic saltwater section) and both the good places have a decent stock of fish, but a narrow and overpriced line of inverts.

 

[ScottR]

Yes, my lights went live as soon as I added the live rock. I wanted to be sure to develop anything on the rock that may have needed light (like beneficial algae or in the small chance some coral hitchhiked).

Super scary to hear about the gorilla crabs! I know there’s always a chance I picked up some bad hitchhikers as well; but it’s why I bought rock from the most reputable places I could find, so I can at least minimize that chance.

I really need to figure out a reasonable place to order livestock, especially the inverts. I’ve got one, maybe two stores with in?driving range that I’m willing to buy from (our PetCo has a catastrophic saltwater section) and both the good places have a decent stock of fish, but a narrow and overpriced line of inverts.

You never know what’s in those rocks. Reputable or not. The best advice I can give is use a red filter with a flashlight at night with lights out. They can’t see red light. You can watch the night crew go to work if you have. I have some nocturnal ones. Fun to watch. But it’s where you'll find the bad guys.

 

[Indytraveler83]

You never know what’s in those rocks. Reputable or not. The best advice I can give is use a red filter with a flashlight at night with lights out. They can’t see red light. You can watch the night crew go to work if you have. I have some nocturnal ones. Fun to watch. But it’s where you'll find the bad guys.

Fantastic idea! I’ll have to do that for sure.

 

[Indytraveler83]

This morning the algae bloom started hitting pretty hard. Was shocked at how fast it developed! Ended up ordering a CuC from reef cleaners, but ordered one for half the size tank, so as not to overpopulate it.

 

[beaslbob]

You could add a few (1-5 or so) male molly(ies) to test the system and don't feed it/them for a week. Then start feeding a single flake per day.

If parameters jump up then right back down, that is a good sign. even better if you get no spikes. LOL

Once you get some $2 FW mollies to live for 2-3 weeks or so you have a very good indication the more expensive and delicate marine only fish should thrive also.

And the LFS might give you store credit.

my .02

 

[BeejReef]

Maybe go a little easy on the ammonia if you want to confirm the tank is cycled. You just paid good $ for all of that live rock. If you push the ammonia up too high, you could kill some of the biodiversity you just paid for.

If you'r ghost feeding and registering 0 ammonia and 0 nitrates, there's a strong chance you're plenty cycled enough for a small fish or two.

 

[W1ngz]

You could add a few (1-5 or so) male molly(ies) to test the system and don't feed it/them for a week. Then start feeding a single flake per day.

If parameters jump up then right back down, that is a good sign. even better if you get no spikes. LOL

Once you get some $2 FW mollies to live for 2-3 weeks or so you have a very good indication the more expensive and delicate marine only fish should thrive also.

And the LFS might give you store credit.

my .02

I'd recommend anything except this. Intentionally testing ammonia levels and experimenting on live animals is still cruel, whether they cost 2$ or 200$

 

[brandon429]

neat way to see the cycle here:

the tank is cycled to the degree the # of pounds of live rock can nitrify, the rest catches up in 30 days or less 100% of the time whether you add anything extra or not.

if someone was curious how much life that live rock can handle, reference any 10 or 20 gallon nano using the same amnt

+ you have dilution in your favor...there is no need to test/dose or do anything to this tank though good luck prying a titration kit out of anyones hand its skin welded. If you trust this tank will 100% self cycle all surfaces by exactly the date of end of may, then it will. regardless of what test kits say (cuz they misread, or test the wrong compounds, until you arrange the test in a very certain way then all test kits work instantly for accurate ammonia)

 

[Indytraveler83]

Interesting set of ideas. I can certainly understand the idea that the tank essentially can handle the equivalent of a 10ish gallon aquarium.

I won't be adding mollies to the tank. While I trust it is cycled enough to handle a little bit of life, my experience with mollies is that they are some of the most unhealthy fish in the trade right now (I have 3 in my freshwater tank, and 2 of them spend more time in QT than in the DT.) I'll never bring another molly into the house, and certainly don't want to put something in my new DT that I know they have...

The result of all of this is that I ordered a CuC appropriate for a 20 gallon tank, with the idea that I won't try to add any fish until at least the beginning of June.