Another Flatworn Exit Warning

[rob safron]

There are so many posts from folks who used flatworm Exit, some with great success some with poor outcomes. Thought I would share my experience so far, the final story still to come, to help others decide if using this product is worth it or not. So I decided to convert my tank to 100% SPS starting 2 years ago. About 6 months ago, I converted a section over to SPS and had to remove a mound of rock that had GSP and button polyps all over them. I replaced with dry rock from BRS, probably cured to short. Shortly after the change I developed a diatom outbreak, followed by Cyno. When I got that cleared up noticed an outbreak of red flat worm, all over my 120. As painful of a decision as it was I knew the outbreak was too widespread for manual removal or hopes a fish would clear it up so decided to test fate and use flatworm exit. I followed directions to the T. Had 35 gallons of water ready to go, a canister filter full of carbon and shiphoned all I could prior. The flatworms began to die within 5 min of dosing and although there were a lot, it didn’t seem as bad as some post I read. Within 15 min the carbon went on, I did a 35 gallon water change and turned my sump back on still full of clean water. I left the carbon on line for 36 hours, as within several hours my fish were not looking well. My powder blue tang had what looked like ich. My other fish looked splotchy and most would not eat. My hawk fish was laying on his side. 24 hours later, all my tangs and rabbit fish have ich. A few still won’t eat, most won’t eat like they used to. So, my fingers are crossed but time will tell. I am not blaming the medication, it certainly did what it says it will do. However, the whole process can go well per some post and very poorly as others. Mine has gone poorly, hoping I don’t lose my fish I have had for 5 years without issue. Just my experience and warning for folks to help make your decisions like I did. Following the directions exactly as written does “not” mean you won’t have negative issues. It’s like playing roulette. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Got to love reefing....

 

[Brew12]

There are so many posts from folks who used flatworm Exit, some with great success some with poor outcomes. Thought I would share my experience so far, the final story still to come, to help others decide if using this product is worth it or not. So I decided to convert my tank to 100% SPS starting 2 years ago. About 6 months ago, I converted a section over to SPS and had to remove a mound of rock that had GSP and button polyps all over them. I replaced with dry rock from BRS, probably cured to short. Shortly after the change I developed a diatom outbreak, followed by Cyno. When I got that cleared up noticed an outbreak of red flat worm, all over my 120. As painful of a decision as it was I knew the outbreak was too widespread for manual removal or hopes a fish would clear it up so decided to test fate and use flatworm exit. I followed directions to the T. Had 35 gallons of water ready to go, a canister filter full of carbon and shiphoned all I could prior. The flatworms began to die within 5 min of dosing and although there were a lot, it didn’t seem as bad as some post I read. Within 15 min the carbon went on, I did a 35 gallon water change and turned my sump back on still full of clean water. I left the carbon on line for 36 hours, as within several hours my fish were not looking well. My powder blue tang had what looked like ich. My other fish looked splotchy and most would not eat. My hawk fish was laying on his side. 24 hours later, all my tangs and rabbit fish have ich. A few still won’t eat, most won’t eat like they used to. So, my fingers are crossed but time will tell. I am not blaming the medication, it certainly did what it says it will do. However, the whole process can go well per some post and very poorly as others. Mine has gone poorly, hoping I don’t lose my fish I have had for 5 years without issue. Just my experience and warning for folks to help make your decisions like I did. Following the directions exactly as written does “not” mean you won’t have negative issues. It’s like playing roulette. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Got to love reefing....

I'm so sorry for your problems! Hopefully once the water conditions improve their natural immunity will get the ich back under control.

Do you think it was an ammonia spike because of the die off? And if so, do you run a refugium?

 

[rob safron]

I'm so sorry for your problems! Hopefully once the water conditions improve their natural immunity will get the ich back under control.

Do you think it was an ammonia spike because of the die off? And if so, do you run a refugium?

I have been testing ammonia and nitrates starting 1 hour after. Ammonia 0 and nitrates remain 1-2. I have a sump, took it off line during treatment so I would have more water to dilute the flatworm poison. I use vinegar as carbon source that keeps my nitrates low and phosates between 0.01-0.03.

 

[Brew12]

I have been testing ammonia and nitrates starting 1 hour after. Ammonia 0 and nitrates remain 1-2. I have a sump, took it off line during treatment so I would have more water to dilute the flatworm poison. I use vinegar as carbon source that keeps my nitrates low and phosates between 0.01-0.03.

I appreciate the details you can provide. It is so much more than I normally see. If I ever find myself in need of this product I want to learn as much as possible.

I know it doesn't help your situation, but that you for sharing.

 

[rob safron]

Sure, that’s why I posted. Not looking for sympathy or help. It helps make decisions when you can read as many experiences as possible.

 

[Skynyrd Fish]

You must of had ich already in the tank. Some tanks just have it always, but the fish don't seem to get it. Once in a great while I'll see what looks like a spot on one of my fish. I would put a cleaner shrimp in the tank. Also a large amount of carbon can strip other things out of the water quickly and cause instability. I always ramp up carbon before I treat so I don't have a big carbon strip shock all at once.

 

[HolisticBear]

Thank you for sharing.

I'm trying to avoid running FE now, putting the burden on my new coris wrasse + flatworm stop. I was also planning on doing a large water change within 15 minutes. Thank you for sharing, a 25% water change after 15 minutes with carbon wasn't enough. If I go down this path, I'll prepare even more water.

There are been enough reports of people wiping out their tanks due to toxins. If you can see one, they can be hundreds / thousands more you don't see

 

[rob safron]

Yep, certainly could have been in the tank for years and this was just enough of a shock to cause the outbreak. Have 2 cleaners but rearly ever see fish Interested in cleaning.

 

[rob safron]

I do run carbon 24/7 for years but of course not nearly as much as they suggest you use after treatment.

 

[rob safron]

Fish look a bit worse and not eating very well. Maybe flatworms were not so bad. Also, there are signs of the flatworm colony still alive after the 1 dose. Unless all my fish die I wont be trying that experiment again. Maybe I’ll try a spotted mandarin or wrasse to keep population down. On a side note, I dose AF 123 and have been rock steady 7.6-7.8 alk for months. Yesterday I was at 8.0, figured maybe it was the water change. Today I’m at 8.3. So either flatworms use up Alk or my corals have been stunted by the use of flatworm exit.

 

[Brew12]

Fish look a bit worse and not eating very well. Maybe flatworms were not so bad. Also, there are signs of the flatworm colony still alive after the 1 dose. Unless all my fish die I wont be trying that experiment again. Maybe I’ll try a spotted mandarin or wrasse to keep population down. On a side note, I dose AF 123 and have been rock steady 7.6-7.8 alk for months. Yesterday I was at 8.0, figured maybe it was the water change. Today I’m at 8.3. So either flatworms use up Alk or my corals have been stunted by the use of flatworm exit.

I knew dying flatworms release toxins into the water but I never dreamed it could be this bad!

There are normally some things to do to help fish pull through in a situation like this. I'd be scared to try them as there is no way of knowing how anything added to the tank would react with what ever is causing the problem.

Running massive amounts of carbon and large water changes seem like the only sensible options.

I hope things turn around for you soon!

 

[rob safron]

Thank you. I’m sure for a lot of people they have no problem. Unfortunately if your fish can have ick in the system their system for years and this is just enough to stress causing outbreak. Could not have used more carbon and my water change came out to 55% so I really couldn’t of gone higher than that. The Ick came on so fast it had to be around and this just really stressed them out

 

[rob safron]

My only other thought is, my pH went from 7.9 prior to the water change to 8.03 after. Not a huge change but to change that much in 15 minutes is pretty large I suppose.

 

[Brew12]

Thank you. I’m sure for a lot of people they have no problem. Unfortunately if your fish can have ick in the system their system for years and this is just enough to stress causing outbreak. Could not have used more carbon and my water change came out to 55% so I really couldn’t of gone higher than that. The Ick came on so fast it had to be around and this just really stressed them out

I've been thinking about that... and I'm not sure that what you are seeing is Ick. It should take at least a week before you can go from a resistant, healthy fish to one suffering. The fact this hit so fast makes me think it is something else. More likely a skin reaction to the toxins from the flat worms.

Regardless, I don't think it matters much. I wouldn't risk adding anything into the tank to try and treat them. It isn't reasonable to think you could set up a QT system in time to move them out. I'm guessing if that option were available it would have been done by now.

My only other thought is, my pH went from 7.9 prior to the water change to 8.03 after. Not a huge change but to change that much in 15 minutes is pretty large I suppose.

I doubt this was much of a factor. Like you said, it is a very small change even if done quickly. And way too small to impact a fish. When I have fish delivered I transition them from shipping water with a pH closer to 7 into my QT without anything other than matching salinity and temp acclimation. It MAY have slowed the coral growth, unsure about that.

 

[rob safron]

I agree it came on so quickly and not just one but all my tangs have it. Wish they would eat better but all I can do is ride it out. I could setup a 20 gal QT quickly but trying to capture 5 fish in a tank full of rock would probably compound the problem.

 

[Brew12]

I agree it came on so quickly and not just one but all my tangs have it. Wish they would eat better but all I can do is ride it out. I could setup a 20 gal QT quickly but trying to capture 5 fish in a tank full of rock would probably compound the problem.

Agreed, not to mention that a 20g tank isn't exactly large enough for 5 tangs. Would only make things worse imo.

 

[Tahoe61]

Unfortunately it's a common occurrence because there are so many flatworms that removing them prior to treatment is daunting. Hobbyist remove what they see but there are often hundreds that remain in the system. Physically removing them over the course of a week or more can help. You can also use the flash light trick at night and get the flatworms to gather in one area and siphon them out, and rinse and repeat.

Sorry to hear of your fish difficulties, that has to be more than frustrating, hope it all turns around with little loss.

 

[shred5]

Red Planaria release toxins so it is best to try and remove as many as possible before treating. You can siphon some out or even take rocks out and dip them first before treating the whole tank..

I had them once and after a while they just disappeared, I dint use fish or anything.

 

[rob safron]

Fish still hanging on, almost looks like a couple can’t see the food to eat it but not Popeye. The great news.....lights are full up and the dumb worms are coming back. Certainly can’t risk re-dosing now. In a 120 with as much live rock as I have I can’t see syphoning them will do much in the long run. Guess once things settle down I guess I will try a predictor but we all know that’s hit and miss.

 

[JoshKReef]

Red Planaria release toxins so it is best to try and remove as many as possible before treating. You can siphon some out or even take rocks out and dip them first before treating the whole tank..

I had them once and after a while they just disappeared, I dint use fish or anything.

They can be starved out, they are regulated based on the nutrients available in your tank