Another "I have no phosphates" thread

[AngryMike2016]

Where are my phosphates going??? For months I have been experiencing an issue with pale SPS and some burnt acro tips. I have tracked this down to seemingly non-existent phosphates. Consistently read 0 on both high and low ranger Hanna checkers, and Salifert.

Remaining parameters are:
Nitrate - 5
SG - 1.026
Calc - 430
Alk - 8

Tank is almost one year old, Red Sea 425 (112 gallons system volume). ROX carbon, protein skimmer, filter socks. About 90 pounds of reef saver rock. Spots of coralline all over the place. No GHA. A few small spots of bryopsis.

I feed a sheet of nori and a bit more than a cube of frozen (variety pack of cubes) every day.
I have been dosing 20 ml of Neophos every day for several weeks now, testing every day, and continue to see 0. Coral health seems to indicate a real deficiency of phosphate.
Any ideas of what is going on?

Fish list is as follows:
midnight lightning clown
black storm clown
pink spotted goby
bullet goby
royal gramma
blue chromis
red firefish
helfrichi firefish
lawnmower blenny
tomini tang

 

[bobby.w.hodges]

You have quite a few small fish, but not many big ones, that being said maybe you can turn the skimmer off for a few hours per day. Do you rinse your frozen foods? If so, stop doing that. Gfo? Refugium?

 

[AngryMike2016]

Hello,

I do not rinse my frozen foods. I do not run GFO or a refugium. Funny timing - I tested my tank a few hours after this post, and I registered (finally!) 0.04 phosphate.

 

[road_runner]

If you want to reduce skimmer, I would advice you lower it way down and skim dry instead of turning it off completly. At least so you do not loose the oxignation that skimmer is adding to the system

 

[Bryson.bobby]

If you want to reduce skimmer, I would advice you lower it way down and skim dry instead of turning it off completly. At least so you do not loose the oxignation that skimmer is adding to the system

You can also take the collection cup off and let it overflow for aeration

 

[Flippers4pups]

I was going to ask what your N03 is at, but sounds like your making headway. In my experience, paling can very well be linked to the lack of P04.

 

[Jettareefer223]

In this era reefing methods/equipment work efficiently , and sometimes to efficiently. I would recommend like other members said to lower the skimmer, feed heavy x2 daily( frozen not nori), slowly taper down on nutrient lowering methods, and add a few fish. Gradually start doing all those things it will come around. You’re aren’t feed all that much, and I feed 2 cubes of brine, 1.5x1.5 reef frenzy daily w/sheet of nori 3x a week on 55 gallon net volume. Also I would cut the carbon down regardless rox is strong, how much are you using/the frequency at which you replace it? Do you 2xhydra 26’s or something else?

I know it’s the “way”, living by the Hanna meter isn’t everything. I use to make reef keeping extremely frustrating with all no3/po4 , testing, and media changing I had to let it go. I finally got the results I wanted coral color/growth/vitality, and haven’t tested or thought about it in a year the corals tell me what I need to know. Stags are growing out of the water lol.

 

[AngryMike2016]

I am using the amount recommended by the BRS calculator, I think its 2/3rds of a cup. I do have the 2x Hydra 26s, with par from 250 up to 400 in the areas that my acro frags are.

I'll definitely follow your suggestions, thank you for the input. I have been wanting more fish as it is. My QT tank should be re-ready in a few days.

Lots of good advice in this thread, I appreciate everyone taking their time to help me out.

 

[Jettareefer223]

In terms on carbon my acros start to look tired/worn out if I run it constantly at this point I only use it when something looks off/water clarity not often 3x a yr. I use Seachem products at my business so I use matrix carbon great function/comparable to rox I use very little 1/4 cup or less in a bag at that. If you pull the carbon it will it may make some difference. Long term use at least for me there’s something it strips from the water colum, but experienced nothing bad with periodic lite use.

I have a few of the same Red Sea setups that I take care of (sps). I run the hydra’s lower at par levels 250-300 and 7-8 hours a day w/ ramp time (it’s blue/10% max white channel). Red Sea did a good job on making the spread light/par fairly homogeneous/uniform. Just food for thought.

 

[Graffiti Spot]

Hello,

I do not rinse my frozen foods. I do not run GFO or a refugium. Funny timing - I tested my tank a few hours after this post, and I registered (finally!) 0.04 phosphate.

Have you seen how much nitrate you have now? It should have lowered.

 

[AngryMike2016]

I run a very similar lighting schedule. I'll give reducing my carbon a try. My nitrates are about 5 at the moment.

 

[road_runner]

High no3 should be treated successfully with
mechinchal filtration
Water change
Good husbandry
Vacume sand when you can
Clean filter socks
Reduce feeding
Skim wet.
Finally,
Check your main return flow. If you do not have good flow your skimmer will skim clean water and reduced in efficiency
You want your return to be 5 to 10 times the system volume.
Or at least double the skimmer intake flow rate.
I have got in the past a problem of high nutrients that after painful proccess realized it was my return flow that was reduced alot and reduced the efficiency of my mechanical filtration. Once o changed my pump to a ligit one (red dragon) issue resolved in 3 months

 

[AngryMike2016]

Thanks, but I don't have high nitrates; they are only 5.

 

[road_runner]

Thanks, but I don't have high nitrates; they are only 5.

Apologies I am working on couple threads with high no3, I mixed up a bit.
Do opposit to whatbinsaid except over feeding. I personally believe over feeding will bring issues later thstbate more complicated.

 

[Potatohead]

I have the exact same issue, let me know what works for you, lol. I am very hesitant to dose inorganic phosphate.

 

[jda]

Your phosphate are binding to the rock and sand (aragonite). ...or you are dosing a kind that your test kit cannot read being either bound to organics or not, etc. I have no idea which kind is in Neophos, but a test kit can only read one kind... and it sounds like Neophos has more in it than just phosphate.

How many parts per billion are you getting on the low range Hannah checker? Zero is almost unheard of on tanks more than a few months old.

If you have more than 1 or 2, then you have enough.

P lower than natural seawater, which is at 1 or 2 ppb, can pale out coral, but it does not usually cause death. You have to use LC, GFO or Organic Carbon to get there.

It sounds like there might be some organic carbon in the NeoPhos along with some phosphate to allow nitrate reduction - if so, then I would stop dosing this. You can use straight sodium triphosphate or some other type of pure phosphate for this and know exactly what you are putting into your tank.

 

[SeaDweller]

Skim dry, feed more than once a day and remove the filter socks.

 

[road_runner]

Skim dry, feed more than once a day and remove the filter socks.

You see, I get skimming wet, I get less water change. But I personally think over feeding will bring problems later on that are more complicated.
If the issue is po4 bounding with rocks as jda said which is totally possible, over feeding will creat a ticking time bomb...no?

 

[Potatohead]

I skim very dry but I don’t know if it helps that much. You seem to get more buildup on the inside of the neck instead of in the cup but it’s still removed from the water.

FWIW I tested phosphate tonight about three hours after feeding and I got 0, retested and got 7. So it’s probably around .01 ppm.

 

[ZaneTer]

Is that not within margin of error for the tester?