Another light recommendation please

telegraham · May 18, 2023

...but I'm a fanboy. Take that view with your water change salt.

jda · May 18, 2023

Any reason that you don't just find a new group of lightly used G4s? I know that you know this, but there is no guarantee that any of these things are actual upgrades... just new.

I asked the only two folks that I know well that use all-led and neither of them thought that there has been any performance upgrade since the G4 came out. I understand not wanting to spend on a G6, but you know what you are getting with a G4.

If you are done tinkering and scavenging for parts and pieces, then I get that. ...maybe their crappy software too.

Anyway... this just seems like it is heading towards the "I 'upgraded' and regret it" path since you know what you are doing, have long successes with other things and are taking suggestions and contemplating things from short term equipment and a few hobbyists without a fraction of your success. Those mags and gigs are no joke, which you know, and most folks would not know the first thing about their requirements. Forgive me if I am overstepping.

Tangent, but companies that only use one tech (like windows only, or proprietary) are usually a warning sign that the rest of their business model and decisions are bad. I was a senior staff SE at a few high tech places and we would not buy companies like this nor choose them as work partners. There is too much open source and portable stuff out there to make these kind of bad decisions in even 2015, let alone today. At least when I got out, it mostly spoke for the quality of SE that you could afford, which is not too good.

telegraham · May 18, 2023

jda said:
Any reason that you don't just find a new group of lightly used G4s? I know that you know this, but there is no guarantee that any of these things are actual upgrades... just new.

I asked the only two folks that I know well that use all-led and neither of them thought that there has been any performance upgrade since the G4 came out. I understand not wanting to spend on a G6, but you know what you are getting with a G4.

If you are done tinkering and scavenging for parts and pieces, then I get that. ...maybe their crappy software too.

Anyway... this just seems like it is heading towards the "I 'upgraded' and regret it" path since you know what you are doing, have long successes with other things and are taking suggestions and contemplating things from short term equipment and a few hobbyists without a fraction of your success. Those mags and gigs are no joke, which you know, and most folks would not know the first thing about their requirements. Forgive me if I am overstepping.

Tangent, but companies that only use one tech (like windows only, or proprietary) are usually a warning sign that the rest of their business model and decisions are bad. I was a senior staff SE at a few high tech places and we would not buy companies like this nor choose them as work partners. There is too much open source and portable stuff out there to make these kind of bad decisions in even 2015, let alone today. At least when I got out, it mostly spoke for the quality of SE that you could afford, which is not too good.

I agree with your G4 take. That's my favorite Radion. That, and I've compared a new G4 to an old G4. I'll take a used G4 over a G5/6 all day long. No spectrum shifting and no degradation. I'm sure it's possible, but I've not seen data that supports degradation.

As for bad decisions, for me, it's a consumer tolerance, trust, and reliability thing. Warning signs to some can easily be seen as valuable by others.

jda · May 18, 2023

To be fair, this is not my take. I only use LEDs over a few smaller tanks with CSBs and a few corals that there is no room for in other places. I got this from some others who have a long time success with many different things, are not fanboys and put their tank inhabitants first (like don't get caught up in apps and tech and gizmos and stuff). Seems like the risk of getting another year out of a G4 is not too much different than a G6 quitting on you after a year at a multiple of the price, or whatever panel. Too often, people are looking for a new devil when the devil that they know is often better.

I would light this tank with 3x 250w Halides and get some 5 to 6 foot LED bars on each side that would be cheaper to buy and less/same wattage, but this does not matter in this case since he has no intrest. Lighting a tank this deep and wide is no joke and he knows that he needs more than one row of lights already. If I had to use LEDs, I would use Photon V2 since the best tanks that I have seen are under these and I trust these folks who have used many things. If I had to take a blind shot, I would go with the results that guys like Therman have had.

LEDs degrade. Who cares. Nearly nobody runs them at 100%, so turn them up a percent or two over time. ...or if you do run them at 100%, then lower them a half of an inch to make up for it. You are going to lose the unit for another reason before this is an issue for nearly everybody.

OrionN · May 18, 2023

The problem with Radion is with the software, and the support time. I feel that they don't listen and don't really read what I put into the email when I request support. I am busy seeing patient all day, and whenever I call, I can't wait 30 mins to talk to them. I have to take time off, clear my schedule to get proper support and even then, they don't solve the problem for me.
The light was good, but it get to the point now where I have to scavenge around, cannibalized my light to get the light working.
More than once, I called before support time supposed to be open and they turn off already and have it on voice mail (they said that near the end of the day, if they are already having their lines full, they would shut down their support). IMO, when you run a business, closing time is the time the customer stop coming in, not the time all the employees leave.
Anyway, I am just not too happy with their services, especially for something that I pay a premium for. I feel that there are a lot of other option now. I am not about to get cheap fixture from China, but there are a lot of fixtures that are as good or perhaps better than Radion.

OrionN · May 18, 2023

telegraham said:
Both fixtures are running all channels at 100%. The ReeFi will give you more adjustability than the Sky.

Cleaning is easy, as disassembly is easy. The ReeFi's are well constructed.

The Duo Extreme graph is different in the two graphs, so they cannot be both turn up at 100%
Looking at it closer, it said that the first graph, the Duo Extreme graph is a tuned spectrum while the second one is 100% all channels. The second graph of the Duo Extreme SHOULD give visual at about 10000K

Acros · May 18, 2023

I love the Kessil look and would definitely do a Kessil only tank if I have the budget. You could mount AP9X front to back and get good coverage in your 30” width. You might need one AP9X every 18” of length. I can confirm that the AP9X grows acros in my nano. I haven’t noticed any adverse shading issues yet. My corals are mostly mini colonies tho.

OrionN · May 18, 2023

Acros said:
I love the Kessil look and would definitely do a Kessil only tank if I have the budget. You could mount AP9X front to back and get good coverage in your 30” width. You might need one AP9X every 18” of length. I can confirm that the AP9X grows acros in my nano. I haven’t noticed any adverse shading issues yet. My corals are mostly mini colonies tho.

I used several Kessil but I do need a large coverage. 72x30 area. I likely will use the Kessil to highlight my anemones. Keep them from wander.

Acros · May 18, 2023

OrionN said:
I used several Kessil but o do need a large coverage. 72x30 area

You will need a lot of them to cover that area. Atleast 2 rows of 3 AP9X (6 in total).

I was also going to suggest a bigger panel LED such as the ATI Straton.

ReeFi seems to be very popular recently. I just don’t know if I can stand the blue spectrum.

minus9 · May 18, 2023

telegraham said:
The Mitras are like second nature to me now, but I understand we all have our preferred interface. I actually prefer the GHL interface over Mobius.

I love GHL hardware, it’s probably one of the best made brands out there, I just wish that the software would join the 21st century. I’ve never used Mobius, but I hated ESL when I had to use it. I’m also not someone who messes with lights after they’re set up. I treat them like halides or T5’s after I set the spectrum, on/off, done.

OrionN · May 18, 2023

Acros said:
You will need a lot of them to cover that area. Atleast 2 rows of 3 AP9X (6 in total).

I was also going to suggest a bigger panel LED such as the ATI Straton.

ReeFi seems to be very popular recently. I just don’t know if I can stand the blue spectrum.

The Duo Extreme seem better with more white. Also I can mount them vertical and just need 3 or 4 for the whole tank.

telegraham · May 18, 2023

OrionN said:
The Duo Extreme graph is different in the two graphs, so they cannot be both turn up at 100%
Looking at it closer, it said that the first graph, the Duo Extreme graph is a tuned spectrum while the second one is 100% all channels. The second graph of the Duo Extreme SHOULD give visual at about 10000K

You've read my notes correctly. The second graph presents both lights at 100%. The first graph indicates reduced whites.

jda said:
To be fair, this is not my take. I only use LEDs over a few smaller tanks with CSBs and a few corals that there is no room for in other places. I got this from some others who have a long time success with many different things, are not fanboys and put their tank inhabitants first (like don't get caught up in apps and tech and gizmos and stuff).

Apologies. I assumed personal experience.