Another stupid question - urghhhh !! sorry

[Lesley]

Ok, hope this doesn't appear to be too stupid but I really am after some advice please.
I have read a lot of info on cycling and have a good understanding of the bacteria cycle. But I just dont want to risk any of my existing livestock.

My first tank was purchased 2nd hand - up running and stocked.
Current tank was an upgrade from the first one, so I have never cycled a tank - lucky me.

If I was to upgrade this tank, but not want to use any of the live rock i currently have, so essentially starting with all new base rock but put 4 kgs of seeded (currently in sump now) Seachem matrix and all the live rock from current tank into the sump of the new upgrade tank, would I still have to cycle ?

My current total water volume is 1500ltrs with about 150kg of rock in DT and 80kg live rock and 4kg matrix in sump.

I would use Seachem prime an stability at the time of the move. I did this during the mini cycle i had on this upgrade.

My new total water volume would be 3000lts. So approx double.
My new set up would be all new base rock in DT. New sand bed
150kgs of old DT live rock & 4 Kgs matrix in the sump only.

I would be moving over a full stock of corals and fish ?
I would certainly be expecting some kind of mini cycle but would I get a full cycle to the stage it will / may harm any livestock I moved over ?

 

[Dtackett]

youre going to get a cycle as the bacteria grows and stabilizes. how big or how small I don't know. base rock takes a while to cycle even when seeded with established live rock. will the cycle kill your livestock? maybe. maybe not. depends on how big the cycle is. but your question isn't really stupid, its a good question. my advice is this.

buy a bottle of dr tims one and only, or a bottle of MB7. place your fish in a bucket full of old tank water while you move everything over and wait for it to settle. move all the rock into your display. it can be moved to the sump later but you want to seed your display with all the marine fauna plus it will make it an easier cycle. once all the rock is moved, dump in the bottle as directed. FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS. wait for a little bit for the tank to settle and test. your fish are fine in the bucket for a few hours so that's not a concern. once everything reads 0 move the fish in. be ready to do a few water changes over the next few days as needed. monitor your tank and test daily for a week or 2 to ensure it was a smooth switch.

 

[Lesley]

youre going to get a cycle as the bacteria grows and stabilizes. how big or how small I don't know. base rock takes a while to cycle even when seeded with established live rock. will the cycle kill your livestock? maybe. maybe not. depends on how big the cycle is. but your question isn't really stupid, its a good question. my advice is this.

buy a bottle of dr tims one and only, or a bottle of MB7. place your fish in a bucket full of old tank water while you move everything over and wait for it to settle. move all the rock into your display. it can be moved to the sump later but you want to seed your display with all the marine fauna plus it will make it an easier cycle. once all the rock is moved, dump in the bottle as directed. FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS. wait for a little bit for the tank to settle and test. your fish are fine in the bucket for a few hours so that's not a concern. once everything reads 0 move the fish in. be ready to do a few water changes over the next few days as needed. monitor your tank and test daily for a week or 2 to ensure it was a smooth switch.

Ok. Here is the problem. We don't want to put any of the current rock into new DT. We have eunice worms X 3. We have a mantis shrimp. And too many bristle worms to even count. The worm explosion is my fault as I was over feeding my tank for ages. So we really don't want any of these pests moving to new DT. Other problem being that we have 9 tangs + others residing in current tank I honestly think the stress of " no space " in a Container will be extremely stressful especially for ich magnet tangs. That was why we were really hoping the live rock would do its job from the sump along with the matrix. Is this really not going to work ? I am really trying to work out a way to do a straight move over ? Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated !!

 

[Dtackett]

yeah a bucket isn't going to work... if you can, I would just set the new tank up by itself and just let it cycle. the worms can be introduced to your display through the return. I would sun bake (not oven) and bleach those rocks before they went into your new tank. theres a good chance youll get a lot of dieoff from those worms dying in your sump without food which can throw a major cycle your way. your best bet will be to set the new tank up and just let it cycle. if that's not an option, I would cycle the rock in a brute trashcan for a few months with a single piece of your old rock in with it. let it cycle and your good.

 

[Lesley]

yeah a bucket isn't going to work... if you can, I would just set the new tank up by itself and just let it cycle. the worms can be introduced to your display through the return. I would sun bake (not oven) and bleach those rocks before they went into your new tank. theres a good chance youll get a lot of dieoff from those worms dying in your sump without food which can throw a major cycle your way. your best bet will be to set the new tank up and just let it cycle. if that's not an option, I would cycle the rock in a brute trashcan for a few months with a single piece of your old rock in with it. let it cycle and your good.

We might just have to have both running at once. Problem being new tank is going in the same spot as old ? what the heck do we do. How do we achieve that !!!!!!

 

[joshkirkland83]

Take as least amount of water you can out of the current tank and move it. It doesn't have to be far, just enough to setup the new one.

 

[Lesley]

Take as least amount of water you can out of the current tank and move it. It doesn't have to be far, just enough to setup the new one.

really happy to do this, but how the hell do you move a 7 foot tank ? How do you level it after the move to have it run properly without risk of damaging tank itself ?
If there is a way this can be done then we are more than happy to do it that way.

 

[joshkirkland83]

really happy to do this, but how the hell do you move a 7 foot tank ? How do you level it after the move to have it run properly without risk of damaging tank itself ?
If there is a way this can be done then we are more than happy to do it that way.

Ohhh. 7ft? Well nevermind. Just gonna have to do it the old fashion way.

 

[Dtackett]

if your end goal is to have the new one setup in the same place as the old one then you can move your old setup. once again, buckets. put your fish in buckets (multiple in your case) drain the tank into a big tub or more buckets. drain your sump. move everything out of the way and set it up somewhere else. add the water back in let it run for a bit until everything clears up. test all parameters and once its stable again put your fish back in. then set up your new tank. moving tanks is easy ive done it a lot for various reasons. ive never lost a fish from moving tanks. just be sure your parameters are stable before you put the fish back in. it could take a few minutes or a few hours for everything to be right again. beautiful tank btw.

 

[joshkirkland83]

Ive done this before, but i put EVERYTHING from my old tank in my new tank and didnt have any cycling.

 

[PostShawn]

I'm going to be doing something similar. I want to tare down old tank and get new rock and sand in a new (second hand) tank that will go in the same spot. What I'm planning on doing is setting up an additional tank or two as quarantine/holding tanks in a different spot. I will transfer live stock into those tanks. I can then treat or do whatever I want before they go in the new tank. Then I will tare down the old tank, setup new tank and add new rock and sand. Let cycle happen and then transfer over livestock. So yes, I'll have extra tanks which I already have. And yes these extra tanks won't look pretty while this is taking place, just barebones. For the few weeks I plan I'll just have to deal with it. It's either that or turn in or sell all live stock and start completely new. I don't have that much stock though so for me a couple small tanks will probably do it.

 

[PostShawn]

if your end goal is to have the new one setup in the same place as the old one then you can move your old setup. once again, buckets. put your fish in buckets (multiple in your case) drain the tank into a big tub or more buckets. drain your sump. move everything out of the way and set it up somewhere else. add the water back in let it run for a bit until everything clears up. test all parameters and once its stable again put your fish back in. then set up your new tank. moving tanks is easy ive done it a lot for various reasons. ive never lost a fish from moving tanks. just be sure your parameters are stable before you put the fish back in. it could take a few minutes or a few hours for everything to be right again. beautiful tank btw.

I think the OP's problem, as will be mine, is she doesn't want to use the previous sand and rock. So new sand and rock will need to cycle. I've gotten away with using live sand and live rock from the LFS and having minimal cycling but still should plan on some weeks for that. But I don't think she wants live rock as she's trying to get rid of pests.

 

[Lenny_S]

It's risky to try and just swap out one setup for another. @Dtackett post #9 would be the way I would do it. Move the old system out of the way, but set it up somewhere else temporarily and put everything back in it. Fill the new tank and sump in the spot you want it with the new sand and base rock in the DT, just leave the sump empty. Once the basic parameters (temp, salinity, pH) are stable in the new tank, you can start to move the live rock from the old tank to the sump of the new tank. Take the water displaced by the rock going into the new sump to backfill the old tank. That amount of rock should be plenty to seed the new tank. Let them both settle a day or two then start moving livestock over. If you move the livestock a little at a time over the course of a week to ten days, you will probably be fine. Probably want to move the fish first and the corals last. You should probably keep the lights on the old tank until everything is moved over. That's all I got, hope it helps.

 

[Lesley]

Okies after thought & discussions. Here's the plan. Empty as much as we can out of existing tank & move it to another location & get it running again. Set up new tank. We have spare return pump & flow & heaters. Skimmer will remain with fish regardless of which tank ( as only have 1 ) lights will remain with corals. This way we can take our time. Don't think we will wait full 12 weeks to cycle will add live rock to sump slowly & seed over couple of weeks with stability. All the new base rock will be - dead rock so no die off expected. We use natural sea water for current tank & will do with new so matching parameters should be fairly easy. Thanks all for thoughts but agreed that best and safest way is to run both tanks simultaneously ! Urgggh. Nightmare. Any suggestion on moving a 7 X 2.5 X 2.5 about 10 feet away ?

 

[Lenny_S]

My suggestion would be to have a lot of containers for the livestock, empty as much water as possible and take out all the rock. Remove water to reduce total weight and the rock because that weight won't be evenly distributed and they could tumble and break the tank. Other than that get a half dozen very strong people to help, even with just a little water and the sand it's going to weigh a few hundred kilos.

 

[PostShawn]

Another thought is you can start seeding your base rock earlier to maybe help with how long it will take and running two large tanks. You don't need a tank to seed the rock, right? So just get it in a bin somewhere out of the way and start it with a cheaper heater and some water and get that rock going. Just throwing it out there.
Good luck.

 

[Lesley]

Another thought is you can start seeding your base rock earlier to maybe help with how long it will take and running two large tanks. You don't need a tank to seed the rock, right? So just get it in a bin somewhere out of the way and start it with a cheaper heater and some water and get that rock going. Just throwing it out there.
Good luck.

Thanks for that. I have filled my current 6 ft sump with rocks & 4kg extra matrix. New tank not ready for 3 months so hoping it will all be on its way to ready by then . Thanks for suggestion. Love it.