Anthia on Bottom

[dochow]

Good morning, I picked up 11 Dispar Anthias at my local LFS 5 days ago. All were in good shape at the LFS and eating besides 1 which has been hanging out at the bottom and hiding without physically or overtly showing signs of disease.

I took all 11 despite the one not being in the best shape thinking this is maybe a swim bladder issue that could hopefully improve over time.

They are currently in my WB 20 AIO undergoing QT. They just had their second dose of General Cure and Copper Power has been slowly ramping up over 5 days. Currently at 1.5.

Everyone is eating and swimming and hiding naturally except the one anthia that was a problem at the LFS. It won’t eat or really even move from its corner. I still don’t see any outward physical signs of illness besides having its color a little more faded. Eyes are clear, no skin issues, body symmetrical.

Any suggestions?

 

[dochow]

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

The video shows the main group to be in very good condition. The poor-doer, without any other symptoms, really can't be treated other than what you are currently doing. As you might guess, it probably would have been best to leave that one at the store. I always tell people to take a pass on any fish that is "ADR" - "Ain't Doin Right".

Just a an observation on your quarantine process. There is absolutely no reason to take 5 days to ramp up copper power. That is advice that was over-extrapolated from the past when people were using copper/citric acid meds, where the advice was to take two days to ramp up the dose. With organically bound coppers, that is no longer necessary. Then, people latched onto the thought, "if two days is good, then five days is better!". Trouble is, we keep seeing the scenario where people are slowly ramping up their copper, the fish develop Amyloodinium and start breathing fast, the people then fear they "ramped the copper up too fast" so they do a water change to lower it, and then the fish die from the untreated disease. Think about all of the fish that go straight into full copper and LFS and importers. I use Coppersafe, and have for the past decade. I add it in two doses, not to slow it down, but to give me some buffer in case I mis-dose.

The other thing is just a personal opinion - I don't like to run GC and Copper at the same time. I feel it adds extra stress due to the prazi scavenging oxygen. Additionally, the effect of copper and metronidazole overlap. I typically run copper first, and then run praziquantel later on to control flukes.

Jay

 

[dochow]

Thank you! Yeah the General cure is done today, WC this afternoon and now only Copper. Ok to run skimmer if Copper Power is organically bound or will it lower the Copper?

also, should I pull marine pure blocks from QT with the copper in there? Will they absorb copper and or release it?

The ADR guy is looking ok, swimming a little more at the bottom but still staying in his corner. More active then last two days.

Will bring Copper now to full dose with your advise after WC.


Thank you!

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Skimmers only remove copper in the proportion of the liquid they remove, so a cup a day isn't going to make a change that you would be able to notice. The organic molecules (like amines) that they use to bind with the copper are too small to be pulled out by a skimmer.

Jay

 

[dochow]

And keep the marine pure blocks from the DT in there? Will they absorb copper?

Nate

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I don’t know what marine pure blocks are, so I can’t tell you if they absorb copper or not, hopefully somebody else can chime in,
Jay

 

[dochow]

 

[dochow]

Basically highly porous ceramic material to increase surface area for biological filtration

 

[ca1ore]

One of the pictures shows a potential blotch on the side. Maybe normal ...

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Basically highly porous ceramic material to increase surface area for biological filtration

That product would be neutral in terms of reacting to copper, it is fumed silica/ceramic and is inert.
Jay

 

[dochow]

Thanks everyone. I never used Copper Power only Cupramine in past and I am running into an issue.

I’m using an API Copper test kit and it doesn’t seem like it’s accurately calculating copper.

Based on dosing it should take about 29mL to get 20 gallons of saltwater to 2.5ppm copper.

Well I am now upwards of 35mL and still getting a reading of 1 to 1.5ppm for Copper based on the API test kit.

I’m worried the API test kit does not test Copper Power correct. I ordered the Hanna Checker today.

Anyone encounter this issue?

 

[dochow]

bump

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Thanks everyone. I never used Copper Power only Cupramine in past and I am running into an issue.

I’m using an API Copper test kit and it doesn’t seem like it’s accurately calculating copper.

Based on dosing it should take about 29mL to get 20 gallons of saltwater to 2.5ppm copper.

Well I am now upwards of 35mL and still getting a reading of 1 to 1.5ppm for Copper based on the API test kit.

I’m worried the API test kit does not test Copper Power correct. I ordered the Hanna Checker today.

Anyone encounter this issue?

The API kit is tough to read. I cheat and use a spectrophometer(grin). The Hanna checker is easier to get a accurate reading with.
Jay

 

[dochow]

This anthia is still the only one not really doing anything. Still don’t see any outwards signs of disease on it. Copper Power seems to be 2.0 but still waiting Hanna Checker to confirm. General cure was complete.

skimmer in place helping O2. Ammonia less then 0.05.

many suggestions for this poor thing? It basically is just lying on buttons hanging out. 8 days there. It kind of moves around a little to shift position but never swims.

seems swim bladder related. Maybe cyanide poisoning?

still not eating and I legit have tried everything. Live baby brine, regular brine, fish eggs, cyclops, musts, garlic guard mixed with all the above.

it just has no interest in anything besides when another nail this comes around it flares it’s dorsal fin.

I have a 2.5gallin all in one I can set up, but I’m not sure that is going to help.

any “out of the box” suggestions. Would love to save this one.

the other 10 are eating and happy and doing great.

 

[Sicklids]

Thanks everyone. I never used Copper Power only Cupramine in past and I am running into an issue.

I’m using an API Copper test kit and it doesn’t seem like it’s accurately calculating copper.

Based on dosing it should take about 29mL to get 20 gallons of saltwater to 2.5ppm copper.

Well I am now upwards of 35mL and still getting a reading of 1 to 1.5ppm for Copper based on the API test kit.

I’m worried the API test kit does not test Copper Power correct. I ordered the Hanna Checker today.

Anyone encounter this issue?

Same exact issue right now. I’m way over bottle dosage and not really sure I’m even at 2ppm by the API test. Let us know what happens when you get your Hannah tester.

 

[dochow]

Same exact issue right now. I’m way over bottle dosage and not really sure I’m even at 2ppm by the API test. Let us know what happens when you get your Hannah tester.

I’ll let you know tonight/tomorrow AM. Hanna test comes in today.

 

[dochow]

Ok so API Copper test is terrible. Hanna checker has my Copper at 2.84.

API Copper test looks barely 1.

 

[Sicklids]

Ok so API Copper test is terrible. Hanna checker has my Copper at 2.84.

API Copper test looks barely 1.

Well then...mine looks closer to 2 on API lol. I’m really killing that velvet. Guess I’m ordering a Hannah now. Thanks so much for updating.

 

[dochow]

Brought copper down to 2.64 this AM.

The anthia which had been hanging at bottom for past 10 days not eating now is swimming in water column a bit with the other 10 anthias.

when I went to put food in he/she dove back to bottom, but that’s an encouraging sign at least