Any Alternatives to dosing LaCl?

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Edited my post. Just for you

Excellent.

 

[PhilSD211]

I have used SeaKlear previously to lower phosphate. Don't remember how much I dosed, didn't use 5-10 micro filter sock... and think I dosed into the neck of skimmer from top. It made my yellow tang develop red blotchy spots and had to take them to LFS for treatment... but it died there I assume. No one knows what happened to it. That was couple years ago.

I've since upgraded to a bigger tank ~100gallons. Had to dose NO3 and PO4 as they were too low for a while. Now things have stabilized, phosphates is getting up to 0.25+ and N03 around 25.

Still had that jar of SeaKlear... so this time I did my research and think now I'm using much lower dose. 0.25mL in 1L of RODI water and dripping that in the in-take of skimmer at maybe 120mL per hour.

This is after I've tried Rowaphos and Phosguard as well as ElimiNP and dosing extra Microbacter 7. Also added a bunch of new bio media. Replaced marine pure blocks with Maxspect balls AND Siporax. All of that doesn't seem to be helping much.

Also have a refugium growing out lots of dragon breath algae, had to dose NO3 and PO4 mentioned before because the algae lost color.

Getting back to dosing SeaKlear, so far no negative effects on any of my tangs (yellows, koles and a powder blue.) Yes, I have too many tangs in the 100gallons which is why I'm having PO4 issues. I know this but wife loves those fish and won't let me sell.. =p

So the amount I'm dosing is probably just enough to remove maybe half of the PO4 produced daily... I'll try gradually increasing dose but have not because I'm afraid that will hurt the yellow tangs.

I did buy a dozen 10 micron filter socks but they get clogged over night. Was going to just put it on the outflow of skimmer but that causes back pressure and skimmer would overflow.

So.... yeah, I'll be taking pics/videos of my tangs and sell some/most of them. =/

 

[ZoWhat]

i can’t tell you how to solve your phosphate problem, but i can tell you that i accidentally killed a gorgeous yellow tang w LaCl.

I killed a 5yr old 7in Hippo, a 5yr old Yellow and a 3yr old Sailfin with SeaKlear

There's smthg more wicked than LaCl3 in their formula... or the LaCl3 is super super dirty/impure

 

[ZoWhat]

Well. Since my tragic event with LaCl3 in losing a lot of my Tangs a month ago ... ive forced myself to do a deep dive.

[Backstory: I have been seeing expensive zoas shrink to pinheads and discovered the one range I was severely out of was po4 at 1-1.5ppm due to lack of carbon dosing and feasting the tank with tetraselmis phyto. Lighting, flow, calc/alk/mag, no3 all acceptable for my zoas. Po4 was way out of control fir some reason. thus the head first slide into LaCl3 dosing. Urgh. into the Tang tragedy]

Brightwell's phos-e seems like a 'safer' alternative to wicked SeaKlear pool cleaner products...

But I still keep coming back using straight up 80proof Vodka. it seems to do the trick lowering no3/po4 into acceptable ranges.

Problem will vodka is it explodes good bacteria to eat Phosphate BUT also has some unwanted unwanted growth on bad bacteria. Potentially settling up dinner fir nuisance algae to feast on. Potentially causing irritation on my zoas having bad bacteria getting populated by vodka dosing. Who knows...

So my research has led me to Tropic Marin NP Bacto-Balance.

Spoke with Lou today from TM USA and he spent some time with me on the phone.

His bacto-balance product does NOT have any live bacteria in it but German backed science to only feed what the good bacteria wants to eat in his product to populate your tank...thus stabilizing no3/po4 at a level where corals want to eat the small bits if no3/po4 they want without the presence of bad bacteria.

Seems like pretty "selective science". I will see for myself as the bacto-balance regiment requires me to stop vodka dosing and rely on their bacto-balance product A L O N E

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Well. Since my tragic event with LaCl3 ... ive forced myself to do a deep dive.

Brightwell's phos-e seems like a 'safer' alternative

But I'm still seeing using straight up 80proof Vodka does the trick just as well. problem will vodka is it explodes good bacteria to eat Phosphate BUT also has some unwanted unwanted growth on bad bacteria

So my research has led me to Tropic Marin NP Bacto Balance.

Spoke with Lou today from TM USA and he soent some time with me on the phone. his bacto balance product does NOT have any live bacteria in it but German backed science to only feed what the good bacteria wants to eat to populate your tank...thus stabilizing no3/po4 at a level where corals want to eat without the presence of bad bacteria.

Seems like pretty selective science. I will see for myself as the bacteria balance regiment requires me to stop vodka dosing and rely on their bacteria balance product

Brightwell's product is lanthanum too, I believe. Why would it be "safer"?

I'm not sure what a good and bad bacteria are in this context. What is a bad one?

 

[ZoWhat]

Brightwell's product is lanthanum too, I believe. Why would it be "safer"?

SeaKlear is wicked stuff to where even a 1ml dose into a 220ish gal water volume sends Tangs to the surface, heavily breathing and lethargic. As much as 3ml-5mls into 200gals will probably kill most Tangs. Even if sent thru a 5micron sock.. Seems you have to stress Tangs out to achieve po4 at 0.1 thru careful dosing. seaKlear is just too darn dangerous for Tangs

Brightwells is proprietary blend but doesn't send Tangs running-for-hills trying to survive... seems effective to get po4 readily below 0.3 into the 0.2s/0.1s. Still a long-term use danger in the back of your mind with coagulated particles of LaCl3 floating around one's substrate

I'm not sure what a good and bad bacteria are in this context. What is a bad one?

I suppose bad bacteria would constitute GHA still developing in a rather acceptable range for no3/po4. Meaning that even though the test #s are within range, GHA still persists. Perhaps feeding on the bad bacteria....

***Perhaps bad bacteria IRRITATING corals bc they DONT eat da stuff but nuisance algae does


.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Maybe the Brightwell product is just a lot more dilute, so has a smaller effect, for good and bad.

It might be purer. Or it might not.

 

[Minhaj Qazi]

I'm frustrated....

In order to keep my PO4 btwn 0.1 to 0.2 in my 220ish gal total water volume system....I've been dosing the SeaKlear Swimming Pool product at a rate of 1ml diluted in 2 gals of rodi water...then that slowly dripped thru a 5micron over the course of 4 days.

Yet Still! .... my Tangs FREAK OUT with the presence of any SeaKlear in the water. They bunch up in one corner, breath heavily and show little interest in eating or swimming around.

They maintain this reaction until it seems ALL SeaKlear is exhausted and removed by my skimmer or socks.

But...If I leave my PO4 unchecked, it seems to rise to above 1.0 until a good % of water change

QUESTIONS

Do I not worry about PO4 at 1ppm and quit chasing #s??

-or-

Any ALTERNATIVE METHODs to get PO4 to bond to smthg and get it skimmed or filter socked out?

Vodka?
Vitamin C carbon dosing?
Vodka Vinegar combo?

Looking for ALTERNATIVEs to LaCl if keeping PO4 under 0.5 is going to be a thing in my tank.


.

Whats Wrong with LaCl first.
Im Ysing it Since 2 years and weekly dose to bring back my Po4 from .15 to .05 and then start heavy feeding till next week. Never had a Problem with La. So Why to Dose which we dont know in details.

 

[Fishinwall]

Would NP Tripic Marine stuff be similar to NOPoX by Redsea?

 

[Fishinwall]

Is the Tropic Marine NP stuff the same as NoPoX by Redsea?

 

[Fishinwall]

Would NP Tripic Marine stuff be similar to NOPoX by Redsea?

Darn double post. Didn’t think the first one posted because I wasn’t logged in.

 

[ZoWhat]

Darn double post. Didn’t think the first one posted because I wasn’t logged in.

@Fishinwall I don't think so...

Nopox is 2 part ethanol, 1 part vinegar with rodi water.

Bacto-balance is an unknown proprietary substance that selectively feeds "good bacteria" to eat po4 while not feeding bad bacteria that irritate coral. As far as I know it's a proprietary TM German scientific formula developed in their lab. Fluid is PINK in color, so God's knows what's in there.. buts Tropic Marin. Best Marine Lab out of Germany

.

 

[Laith]

Curious if you were also using a pool or other non aquarium brand, as I am looking for a common denominator here.

I've been using ElimiPhos for close to a year now. It's the Tropic Marin brand of LaCl3. I just drip it by hand into my overflow without all of the dilution, socks, etc. Nothing in my tank reacts to it at all. Including several tangs and supposedly sensitive inverts like cleaner shrimp and urchins.

I also use this and have never had a problem with any of my tangs. 1ml in my tank (about 1650-1750 litre net volume) lowers PO4 by .006ppm. Typically I dose an average of 4ml every other day though it seems my algae reactor is slowly catching up with my PO4 so dosing is decreasing.

 

[mrlavalamp]

Something has changed with Seaklear's phosphate remover.

I just started using a new bottle of seaklear two days ago. As a result I lost a coral beauty and my foxface is breathing heavy but has survived 36 hours since the treatment. Naso tang and all other fish are totally fine no signs of stress at all. Tank never went cloudy at all.

I had treated with my last bottle of seaklear DOZENS of times, and the only time I had issues was when I didnt dilute it enough and totally clouded up the tank for a day.

The bottle I just opened is Seaklear 90207.

I followed the same recipe as I have before.

50 ml of Seaklear into 200ml of RODI to make my stock solution.
To treat I put 5 ml of stock solution into 1000 ml of RODI and drip this into my skimmer at 1 drop/3seconds.

After reading this thread I am tossing the rest of the seaklear in the trash.

I have used Phosphate E in the past with no issues so I may go back to that, but I may also switch to GFO only and stop using lacl all together. Losing my Beauty and putting my Foxface in jeopardy is heart-wrenching.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Bacto-balance is an unknown proprietary substance that selectively feeds "good bacteria" to eat po4 while not feeding bad bacteria that irritate coral. As far as I know it's a proprietary TM German scientific formula developed in their lab. Fluid is PINK in color, so God's knows what's in there.. buts Tropic Marin. Best Marine Lab out of Germany
\

IMO, that's just speculation by the company selling it, unless they can provide actual evidence (and a definition) on the good vs bad bacteria.

IMO, it's highly unlikely to be true that one can feed specific organics to drive only "good bacteria" and not be consumed by "bad" bacteria.

 

[ZoWhat]

IMO, that's just speculation by the company selling it, unless they can provide actual evidence (and a definition) on the good vs bad bacteria.

IMO, it's highly unlikely to be true that one can feed specific organics to drive only "good bacteria" and not be consumed by "bad" bacteria.

Agreed. I think down the road we are going to see companies like SeaChem and Brightwell sell bacteria diverse live rock rubble to add to your tank, refugium and sump. Not Miracle-Mud, but super charged bacteria covered rock rubble