Any butterfly pair keepers here ?

[piranhaman00]

Kinda off topic, whats your experience keeping different species of butterfly together? I am about to add a longnose to a 180 with a copperband, both 3-4".

 

[Zionas]

Following.

I am considering x2 Henis if I cannot get the Kole from Hawaii due to the virus + trade war.

Heard Roaps subgenus are among the hardiest too, but they command a high price, only sporadically available where I am, and may not be at a desirable size. Henis come in all sizes where I am and are almost always available. They’re Bannerfish.

As for the ease of keeping different butterfly species, from the books I’ve read WWM and Scott Michael don’t agree on a couple. Scott Michael rates the Yellow Pyramid and congeners a 4/5 but Bob Fenner only gives them a 2/3 with 1 being the hardiest and 3 the least. Scott Michael rates the Klein’s a 5/5 while it’s another 2/3 for Bob Fenner. Michael rates the two species of Yellow Longnose both a 4/5 but Fenner only gives them a 2 instead of a 1. They agree on most of the other species though including the relative difficulty of the Chelmon and Chelmonops genus, the hardiness of the Roaps subgenus, Barberfish, Auriga and Pacific Raccoon, and the hardiness of some species of Heniochus (not the brown ones).

Scott W. Michael gives full marks to the Longfin Bannerfish and Schooling Bannerfish, Tinker’s, Klein’s, Barberfish, and a couple other Roaps I think.

Thought it would be interesting to compare the advice of two different experts, though I’d be far more interested to hear your experiences.

For most butterflies would introducing them as a pair, at the same time be okay?

 

[Angel_Anthias lover]

Following.

I am considering x2 Henis if I cannot get the Kole from Hawaii due to the virus + trade war.

Heard Roaps subgenus are among the hardiest too, but they command a high price, only sporadically available where I am, and may not be at a desirable size. Henis come in all sizes where I am and are almost always available. They’re Bannerfish.

As for the ease of keeping different butterfly species, from the books I’ve read WWM and Scott Michael don’t agree on a couple. Scott Michael rates the Yellow Pyramid and congeners a 4/5 but Bob Fenner only gives them a 2/3 with 1 being the hardiest and 3 the least. Scott Michael rates the Klein’s a 5/5 while it’s another 2/3 for Bob Fenner. Michael rates the two species of Yellow Longnose both a 4/5 but Fenner only gives them a 2 instead of a 1. They agree on most of the other species though including the relative difficulty of the Chelmon and Chelmonops genus, the hardiness of the Roaps subgenus, Barberfish, Auriga and Pacific Raccoon, and the hardiness of some species of Heniochus (not the brown ones).

Scott W. Michael gives full marks to the Longfin Bannerfish and Schooling Bannerfish, Tinker’s, Klein’s, Barberfish, and a couple other Roaps I think.

Thought it would be interesting to compare the advice of two different experts, though I’d be far more interested to hear your experiences.

For most butterflies would introducing them as a pair, at the same time be okay?

Unless it is a true pair that may not work, as they are gonochoric and so cannot change sex to suit their environmental status. Though some species seem to be more tolerant of conspecifics than others from what ive seen like the heniochus.

 

[MrsBugmaster]

As far as I know not that much is know about the sexing of butterflyfish. No one knows if they are born male and female or if they can change sex like angelfish and clownfish. It is best to get a group of 3 to 5 and see which ones pair up or you may not have a true bonded pair. Even in the wild they have found pairs of same sexes together, for safety from predators. Kind of a you watch my back and I'll watch yours. So, from my understanding, the only way to get a true pair is to get groups of them and see who pairs up. This can take months to do if they are small. Or to buy them as a bonded or mated pair.

 

[MrsBugmaster]

Kinda off topic, whats your experience keeping different species of butterfly together? I am about to add a longnose to a 180 with a copperband, both 3-4".

Not sure who you are asking this to, but I have not kept either one of these two so I can't say.

 

[piranhaman00]

Not sure who you are asking this to, but I have not kept either one of these two so I can't say.

I was just asking to this thread in general OP seems to have a lot of experience !

 

[Zionas]

I see. Thanks for letting me know because I thought many other butterfly species can do well if two are introduced at the same time. Heard the Yellow Pyramid and that genus are also tolerant of conspecifics if introduced at the same time. If I really can’t find a Kole Tang at the right size I’ll just get a pair of Henis.

 

[Abhishek]

I was just asking to this thread in general OP seems to have a lot of experience !

I have kept longnose and copperband together and they should be just fine unless one of them is significantly larger than the other while introducing . I don’t think there will be any issues what so ever

 

[Abhishek]

If anyone has experience with Prognathodes sp. please do share !!!

 

[Angel_Anthias lover]

Prognathodes Aculeatus - Rosy Butterflyfish - Reef Central Online Community

Prognathodes Aculeatus - Rosy Butterflyfish Reef Fishes

reefcentral.com

I found this thread on prognathodes which may be helpful

 

[pcon]

I tried to pair burgess butterflies with the standard technique I used on dwarf angels. I had 0 luck getting any pairing behavior. I do think they are quite a bit tricker than the angels to pair even for the monogamist butterflies. They also have a huge variety of social structures so it’s important to identify what that is for the species in question.

 

[Eva Rose]

Info on c.fremblii.

Blue striped butterfly fish, Chaetodon fremblii

So I have exhausted the whole 3 pages of Google search for this one. [emoji53] Only took 3 hours to read everything available so far on this fish. Seems it will eat a variety of foods (nori, black worms, frozen mysis, frozen calanus, frozen vegiblend) and possibly SPS. Difficult to get...

www.reef2reef.com

Tinkeri sounds like it might be a good option for you. I have seen several pairs sold in past years. I remember TSM corals sold a pair. Why don’t you contact them to ask if the Tinkeri butterflies usually arrive paired or if not - their tips on pairing them together.

You have experience with butterflies & are obviously skilled at keeping them. Some members here I’m sure will be able to help you source a vendor that has a pair.

 

[Zionas]

Subgenus Roaps are expensive and really hard to come by where I am. When they do they often come in large sizes, 4” or larger, which is not what I want. I want them at the 2.5-3” range. A Tinkeri where I am costs around the equivalent of 600 bucks.

Henis are big but easy to come by and come in all sizes from 2” to over 7”.

Good luck OP with whatever you choose!

 

[User1]

@o2manyfish as a metric ton of butterflies in both his tanks. Indoors and outdoors. Amazing really. He has mad skills. I believe he has some that spawn.

Someone bought the trio of Millet Butterflies from Pacific East Aquaculture. BIOTA raised. Amazing. I was sitting on the fence too long and poof - gone. Seem to be a good choice for mixed reefs so I'm looking for another trio.

See few here and there in reefs. I am trying a copperband now. On the small side so a bit concerned. That an my lavender tang is being a big poo head towards it so not sure how this will play.

 

[Abhishek]

Info on c.fremblii.

Blue striped butterfly fish, Chaetodon fremblii

So I have exhausted the whole 3 pages of Google search for this one. [emoji53] Only took 3 hours to read everything available so far on this fish. Seems it will eat a variety of foods (nori, black worms, frozen mysis, frozen calanus, frozen vegiblend) and possibly SPS. Difficult to get...

www.reef2reef.com

Tinkeri sounds like it might be a good option for you. I have seen several pairs sold in past years. I remember TSM corals sold a pair. Why don’t you contact them to ask if the Tinkeri butterflies usually arrive paired or if not - their tips on pairing them together.

You have experience with butterflies & are obviously skilled at keeping them. Some members here I’m sure will be able to help you source a vendor that has a pair.

TSM is simply awesome ! I have already contacted them with my list and waiting for them to respond .

 

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

Cool! Great discussion!!

 

[Abhishek]

If you see carefully , you will notice that Asian people particularly Japanese people are extremely proficient in keeping hard to keep butterflies especially obligate corallivores .

In all my years of keeping butterflies (only long nose and copperband) I have realized that shorter supply chain minimizing stress and effectively treating bacterial disease goes a long way . With all the amazing foods available like masstick , panta rhei nouri , clams , blackworms feeding is hardly my biggest concern .

We have gravitated towards reef tanks especially with acroporas so much here in the states that there’s hardly any demand for rare butterflies increasing price , long supply chain and poor handling

 

[mattzang]

even in the jake adams reference with the tinkeri butterflies, i believe he had to remove them from one of his tanks and he said one was beating up on the other. not sure if moving them in with more aggressive tankmates fixed the problem, but maybe roaps are more pair during breeding only type fish

https://www.fishbase.in/summary/5577


Biology Glossary (e.g. epibenthic)
Often found in the vicinity of steep slopes, solitary or in pairs and occasionally in small aggregations (Ref. 4858). Benthopelagic (Ref. 58302). Feed on a variety of planktonic and benthic organisms (Ref. 4858). Oviparous (Ref. 205). Form pairs during breeding (Ref. 205). High-priced aquarium export (Ref. 37816).




Life cycle and mating behaviorMaturity | Reproduction | Spawning | Eggs | Fecundity | Larvae
Form pairs during breeding (Ref. 205).

so says found in pairs sometimes, but also just forms pairs during breeding

 

[Steve Fast]

I've had pairs of the following:

Chaetodon punctatofasciatus
Chaetodon guttatissimus
Chaetodon miliaris
Forcipiger flavissimus
Chaetodon xanthurus

If you lose one, though it is near impossible to add another. So currently only have pairs of

Chaetodon miliaris
Chaetodon xanthurus

I didn't purchase as pairs, just added them at the same time. Some species, you will find in groups at your LFS (I've seen that a lot at That Pet Place). Heniochus acuminata seem to prefer schools, though do fine solo too. Mine are in a mixed reef and leave the coral alone... though cannot have any frogspawn or related corals.... of course they are very well fed. I would not mix any of these with any Chelmon species as they are too contemplative eaters to keep up with a Chaetodon feeding frenzy!

Hope this helps.

 

[mattzang]

I've had pairs of the following:

Chaetodon punctatofasciatus
Chaetodon guttatissimus
Chaetodon miliaris
Forcipiger flavissimus
Chaetodon xanthurus

If you lose one, though it is near impossible to add another. So currently only have pairs of

Chaetodon miliaris
Chaetodon xanthurus

I didn't purchase as pairs, just added them at the same time. Some species, you will find in groups at your LFS (I've seen that a lot at That Pet Place). Heniochus acuminata seem to prefer schools, though do fine solo too. Mine are in a mixed reef and leave the coral alone... though cannot have any frogspawn or related corals.... of course they are very well fed. I would not mix any of these with any Chelmon species as they are too contemplative eaters to keep up with a Chaetodon feeding frenzy!

Hope this helps.

how are the miliaris with corals?