Anyone with experience on Freshwater Cichlids?

[Christina11]

I find the that saltwater forums have so much more insight. And I have been trying to source a veterinarian in Dallas TX with no luck. I'm looking to see if anyone would feel comfortable helping with some of my symptoms?

Yellow Lab Cichlid Mbuna
Peacock Cichlid

Mbuna - redness at base of pectoral fins, around mouth, also around bottom fins, flashing every 10-20 minutes, inability to swallow pellet food unless smashed-up
going on a month, now the mbuna redness has gone away, he can eat full pellets now, but the flashing hasn't changed.
He has been in a quarantine tank for 2 months now . Took 45 days for the redness to go away. video of fish here---

New video by christina allen

photos.app.goo.gl

Peacock Cichlid - super weird, after he eats food, about 1-2 minutes later he begins opening and closing his mouth rapidly! and inverting himself towards the ground during severe cases, nose down, tail up, breathing heavily for the next 15-60 minutes...... then he stops. If its a large feeding, he could do this for hours. A small feeding, only 5-10 minutes. video of fish here ---

New video by christina allen

photos.app.goo.gl

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

Have these two fish been in contact with each other, or are their cases separate?
Have you tried any medications on them yet?
For the peacock cichlid - what types of food cause this reaction?

Jay

 

[Christina11]

Yes, I should note that we bought some driftwood for the aquarium, and believe it may have had a dye in it. Because some of the fish started getting sick with different symptoms. its removed now.

To answer your questions
Yes, they were in a 125gal tank with 7 other peacock cichlids. These could be lingering effects of the situation. We had another fish die without any symptoms, and we did examine him and his liver yellow and fatty through the microscope.

Its not a new tank, and I take care of the water.

The yellow fish had clamp fin and was lethargic, and he was put in hospital tank 3/8. On 3/15 or so he started the redness, he was treated with kanamycin for 5 days. to which he ate literally one grain of pebble on the 6th day. The redness didnt go away during this time. But what is interesting is as the redness went away, he was finally able to eat a full pellet.

The peacock started breathing faster 24/7, and he was put in hospital tank around same time. He breathed fast for 2-3 weeks! but ate regular and poop was fine. he also went through the kanamycin treatment, and his breathing seemed to get better. I feed him RONS CICHLID PELLETS which is supposed to be better than the store bought stuff. some frozen mysis shrimp, and pure spirulina here or there.
The peacock mouth thing started in 1/24, then went away, and now it is back. He has also had bloating issues after he eats off an on since this time.

Really appreciate your help

 

[vetteguy53081]

Often cichlid or epsom salt effects as is malachite green with injury on them

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Yes, I should note that we bought some driftwood for the aquarium, and believe it may have had a dye in it. Because some of the fish started getting sick with different symptoms. its removed now.

To answer your questions
Yes, they were in a 125gal tank with 7 other peacock cichlids. These could be lingering effects of the situation. We had another fish die without any symptoms, and we did examine him and his liver yellow and fatty through the microscope.

Its not a new tank, and I take care of the water.

The yellow fish had clamp fin and was lethargic, and he was put in hospital tank 3/8. On 3/15 or so he started the redness, he was treated with kanamycin for 5 days. to which he ate literally one grain of pebble on the 6th day. The redness didnt go away during this time. But what is interesting is as the redness went away, he was finally able to eat a full pellet.

The peacock started breathing faster 24/7, and he was put in hospital tank around same time. He breathed fast for 2-3 weeks! but ate regular and poop was fine. he also went through the kanamycin treatment, and his breathing seemed to get better. I feed him RONS CICHLID PELLETS which is supposed to be better than the store bought stuff. some frozen mysis shrimp, and pure spirulina here or there.
The peacock mouth thing started in 1/24, then went away, and now it is back. He has also had bloating issues after he eats off an on since this time.

Really appreciate your help

Cryptobia is pretty common in peacock cichlids. I can't say that the symptoms you are seeing line up 100% with that, but the symptoms can be varied:

VM104/VM077: Cryptobia iubilans in Cichlids

After many years of diagnostics at the University of Florida and at other laboratories around the country, it appears that Cryptobia iubilans is not uncommon among cichlids, and that environmental and other factors determine the extent of disease.

edis.ifas.ufl.edu

 

[dennis romano]

I've been keeping Malawi cichlids for many decades. Whenever I saw symptoms like your fish's, it was due to poor water conditions. They need a high pH, at least 7.6. Do several large water changes, at least 25%.

 

[Christina11]

I've been keeping Malawi cichlids for many decades. Whenever I saw symptoms like your fish's, it was due to poor water conditions. They need a high pH, at least 7.6. Do several large water changes, at least 25%.

Okay Dennis, I have been keeping them in quarantine tanks for the past 60 days. And have been keeping nitrates under 15. I've been using RO water with crushed coral and the PH has been sitting steady at 7.9-8.1, even with the low PH of RO during my water changes. I am changing the water once a week 20%. Any other suggestions or advice to consider?

During my water changes i us RO water, add cichlid salt (which has magnesium, calcium, etc) to increase the hardness. in the large tank i traditionally used tap water with declorinator, but i have chloramines in my water, and out the tap the nitrates are 10 so i figured RO would be a cleaner effect. do you think this is okay?

 

[moretor1]

Are you running carbon in the main tank?
I would if you arent so it can absorb whatever might be left

 

[Christina11]

Cryptobia is pretty common in peacock cichlids. I can't say that the symptoms you are seeing line up 100% with that, but the symptoms can be varied:

VM104/VM077: Cryptobia iubilans in Cichlids

After many years of diagnostics at the University of Florida and at other laboratories around the country, it appears that Cryptobia iubilans is not uncommon among cichlids, and that environmental and other factors determine the extent of disease.

edis.ifas.ufl.edu

Hi Jay. Okay I spent some time looking at this and it is very insightful. It did say that Metro doesnt treat this, only Diamthazole (excuse spelling). His feces still look food colored and tend to drop well. But i'd say there not the fat clumps like before. Are you thinking the mouth chomping is due to intestinal issue? Ever seen this before?

Any thoughts on the yellow lab? I just dont know why he flashes, and the other fish in Q tank doesn't, nor do any of the fish in the main tank.

 

[Christina11]

Are you running carbon in the main tank?
I would if you arent so it can absorb whatever might be left

I do have some carbon in the main tank. The main tank fish seem to act normal. I am not seeing any physical or behavior issues with them at the moment.

 

[moretor1]

From what I can find, the flashing is most likely a parasite

Have you tried using tons of copper yet?
If not, I would do 14 days of copper treatment and then move to a seperate observation tank

Not a vet, but copper casts a pretty wide net of what it can treat as most inverts are killed by it

 

[Ziggy17]

Looks bacterial. Do you keep metro on hand? As mentioned, usually points to a combination of water quality and stress. If you treat with metro and it doesn’t go away, you can try prazi. Just keep it feeding well and it should clear up.

The peacock nose down is typically a swim bladder issue. This is sometimes this is caused by eating at the water surface too fast. I had a few Haps that were over zealous eaters and this would happen. My guess is they were taking in too much air with the food causing a short issue with swim bladder regulation. It always corrected itself in a short period of time. Are you feeding floating pellets? Do you feed a veg based flake once and awhile? Spirulina based flake? Or even peas taken out of the shell?

 

[Christina11]

From what I can find, the flashing is most likely a parasite

Have you tried using tons of copper yet?
If not, I would do 14 days of copper treatment and then move to a seperate observation tank

Not a vet, but copper casts a pretty wide net of what it can treat as most inverts are killed by it

I have not tried copper. Thats a thought. Have you seen a case where one fish will have the issue, but the others dont? they came from the same tank, and the others arent illustrating the flashing symptom.

 

[Christina11]

Looks bacterial. Do you keep metro on hand? As mentioned, usually points to a combination of water quality and stress. If you treat with metro and it doesn’t go away, you can try prazi. Just keep it feeding well and it should clear up.

The peacock nose down is typically a swim bladder issue. This is sometimes this is caused by eating at the water surface too fast. I had a few Haps that were over zealous eaters and this would happen. My guess is they were taking in too much air with the food causing a short issue with swim bladder regulation. It always corrected itself in a short period of time. Are you feeding floating pellets? Do you feed a veg based flake once and awhile? Spirulina based flake? Or even peas taken out of the shell?

In regards to bacteria...
Are you referencing the peacock with the mouth/internal problem?
Or the lab with the flashing?

I do have metro. I was able to do a fecal sample, and saw several what appear to be nematode eggs. I treated with flubenzadole and havent seen eggs in the fecal, infact i saw a dead worm 5 days later, which i thought was interesting. To pass the worm so many days after the treatment is complete. heres a picture if your a nerd like me!

 

[Johnd651]

It's interesting you use RO. African cichlids like high pH and hard water (300 ppm). Even with cichlid salt I am not sure how close you would be getting to it. I used to have mbunas for 8+ years, and they loved city water with just dechlorinator. The wholesaler in town actually pumped a spring through his tanks with no treatment.

 

[Christina11]

It's interesting you use RO. African cichlids like high pH and hard water (300 ppm). Even with cichlid salt I am not sure how close you would be getting to it. I used to have mbunas for 8+ years, and they loved city water with just dechlorinator. The wholesaler in town actually pumped a spring through his tanks with no treatment.

okay thats good feedback. I can start mixing the water 50%/50% and gradually go back to tap for the QT tank. Yes the PH has been steady, the crushed coral and aragonite sand with the minimal water changes has been keeping the PH high. and the cichlid salt does a good job with raising the GH. I called seachem to ask if maybe this would be an irritant, but they said it is designed for RO water. However, i use it both QT tanks, the peacock and the yellow lab. the peacock doesnt have any flashing systems at all so im thinking its not water related.

 

[dennis romano]

Right now, I'm running a 125 with too many mbuna to count. I do a 20% water change at least once a week with straight tap water, no dechlorinator. In my humble opinion, the chlorine keeps down the bacteria that may attack your fish. Here in north NJ, the water is liquid rock, so no chemical adjustment is done. When I was in the pet business, cichlids with your fish's symptoms water tests usually showed high ammonia. The less than favorable conditions led to burning of the fins (redness). Just curious, what are you feeding? Mbuna are basically vegetarians. Peacocks are more carnivorous. You really shouldn't keep mbuna and peacocks together. Aggressive mbuna like Auratus and demonsoni will make mincemeat out of peacocks and same size haps. Yellow labs are sissies.

 

[Tetra1]

I have had very good luck with tetracycline or furan with multiple water changes in circumstances like these. Another medication you can try is doxycycline. If you can find any of those anywhere they repair just about any kind of condition.

 

[Christina11]

Right now, I'm running a 125 with too many mbuna to count. I do a 20% water change at least once a week with straight tap water, no dechlorinator. In my humble opinion, the chlorine keeps down the bacteria that may attack your fish. Here in north NJ, the water is liquid rock, so no chemical adjustment is done. When I was in the pet business, cichlids with your fish's symptoms water tests usually showed high ammonia. The less than favorable conditions led to burning of the fins (redness). Just curious, what are you feeding? Mbuna are basically vegetarians. Peacocks are more carnivorous. You really shouldn't keep mbuna and peacocks together. Aggressive mbuna like Auratus and demonsoni will make mincemeat out of peacocks and same size haps. Yellow labs are sissies.

You have me laughing here a little its nice to get a laugh in. I am feeding RONS CICHLID PELLETS (MBUNA) along with spirulina tablets and frozen mysis. I am feeding this to both the peacock and the yellow lab. I can change the food if you think this will help? Wow to chlorine. Thanks for your enlightment.

I do hear you on ammonia. I have a cycled filter in the yellow lab QT and once a week i test for ammonia just because, and it has always showing 0. He has been in this tank for 60 days with the same filter. His redness has remained gone for the past 2 weeks, but the flashing continues. You can tell he looks irritated at times. He does only seem to flash his gill area. but he is so small i dont know how i can get a gill sample. they dont appear swollen, and his gill movements have been around 50-65 per minute. Is this elevated for a juvenile yellow lab?

 

[Christina11]

I have had very good luck with tetracycline or furan with multiple water changes in circumstances like these. Another medication you can try is doxycycline. If you can find any of those anywhere they repair just about any kind of condition.

Maybe I will have to try this. I was hoping time will heal, but this has now been 60 days and im worried he is getting gill damage. his breathing is 50-65 per minute. Is this okay?