APEX CHILLER AND PUMP PROGRAMMING

[Naldy_PR]

Happy Monday reefers!

I already set my chiller and dedicated pump to turn on when temperature reaches the following details,

Chiller

Set ON
Fallback ON
If Temp > 77.5 Then ON
If Temp < 77.1 Then OFF

Dedicated pump

Set OFF
Fallback ON
If Output Chiller = ON Then ON
If Swx1_1 CLOSED Then OFF
If Swx1_2 CLOSED Then OFF

However, I would like to run the pump every 30 minutes for 2 minutes if the chiller is off to avoid water “decomposing” in the chiller coils if all is off for some time.

I used this programming,

Set OFF
Fallback ON
If Output Chiller = ON Then ON
OSC 000:00/002:00/028:00 Then ON
If Swx1_1 CLOSED Then OFF
If Swx1_2 CLOSED Then OFF

I tried to use OSC, however, when temperature increased and chiller was supposed to be on, the OSC programming superseded the temperature programming.

Any help will be highly appreciated.

 

[DanyL]

Chillers don’t like standing water, and you really don’t have a good reason to stop the pump dynamically, I’m not even sure how much money you’ll save given that starting/stopping a pump is both more power intensive than running it continuously, as well as wears the pump quicker.

Moreover, I’ve used chillers for 17 years, different models and brands, some are in use for well over a decade now and I’ve never used an external controller for them - their thermostat is quite accurate, especially when calibrated every few years.

My personal recommendation is to leave it on, both the chiller and pump, and put focus on the heater, because they are the real trouble makers.

 

[SantaMonica]

And wouldn't 77.1 to 77.5 be a pretty narrow band, causing too rapid cycles?

 

[Naldy_PR]

And wouldn't 77.1 to 77.5 be a pretty narrow band, causing too rapid cycles?

It takes close to one hour to go up and go down.

 

[DanyL]

A properly sized chiller should bring down the temp by 1C (about 2F) in about 10-15 minutes, depending on the temps outside.

Constantly turning on and off the chiller will likely shorten its lifespan like was mentioned above, they aren’t really built to work like this.

 

[ca1ore]

On your code, try swapping the order of the OSC command and the output command. I don’t think you need the Set command.

I agree that if the chiller has its own integrated temperate contolller, you should use that. You could still plug the chiller into an apex outlet but program it to turn off the chiller only if it were to get stuck on.

 

[Naldy_PR]

A properly sized chiller should bring down the temp by 1C (about 2F) in about 10-15 minutes, depending on the temps outside.

Constantly turning on and off the chiller will likely shorten its lifespan like was mentioned above, they aren’t really built to work like this.

Well……1 degree on 15 minutes is kind of steep don’t you think?

If the chiller has a built in thermostat I do not see the difference between turning it on and off…..

 

[DanyL]

Well……1 degree on 15 minutes is kind of steep don’t you think?

Not at all. Like I already mentioned, I’ve been using chillers for 17 years, from my very first Nano to my 206 gallon system and a 90g frag tank, from softies to the most delicate acros.

1C in 10-15 minutes is not a problem at all.
Most chillers that are designed to work with reefs are working exactly like this, with the exception of the larger Teco models (Tk500-Tk2000) which are designed to have an interval of 0.5C (about 1F). I’m working with both, no difference between the two either.

If the chiller has a built in thermostat I do not see the difference between turning it on and off…..

Because what you’re describing is pushing the chiller to work outside its spec, which in turn would make it turn on-off more often that it would if it had been using the bounds it was designed to work with.

Not only that, but to make it work you’d need to configure the set point of the internal thermostat 1 degree lower, otherwise it wouldn’t kick in when you turn it on, which could easily lead to 2C degree decrease on failure of your own system, which is nothing to be unheard of (see the “Apex resetting configuration randomly” on the forums).

I’ve seen people do exactly what you’re trying to do achieve here, it’s not that it’s impossible. I’ve also seen people fail miserably in doing so, basically cooking as well as freezing their tanks.
Just last year my friend had gone through something like this, lost everything because of a sudden failure + realizing he did not think this through.

From my honest perspective, you’re trying to add an unnecessary layer of complexity, with additional points of failure, to something that was designed from the ground up to continually work for a decade+ without any interruptions, and I have my own first hand experience to back it up with 5 different chillers, one of which is now more than a decade running non-stop.

That’s my 2 cents.

 

[Naldy_PR]

Not at all. Like I already mentioned, I’ve been using chillers for 17 years, from my very first Nano to my 206 gallon system and a 90g frag tank, from softies to the most delicate acros.

1C in 10-15 minutes is not a problem at all.
Most chillers that are designed to work with reefs are working exactly like this, with the exception of the larger Teco models (Tk500-Tk2000) which are designed to have an interval of 0.5C (about 1F). I’m working with both, no difference between the two either.



Because what you’re describing is pushing the chiller to work outside its spec, which in turn would make it turn on-off more often that it would if it had been using the bounds it was designed to work with.

Not only that, but to make it work you’d need to configure the set point of the internal thermostat 1 degree lower, otherwise it wouldn’t kick in when you turn it on, which could easily lead to 2C degree decrease on failure of your own system, which is nothing to be unheard of (see the “Apex resetting configuration randomly” on the forums).

I’ve seen people do exactly what you’re trying to do achieve here, it’s not that it’s impossible. I’ve also seen people fail miserably in doing so, basically cooking as well as freezing their tanks.
Just last year my friend had gone through something like this, lost everything because of a sudden failure + realizing he did not think this through.

From my honest perspective, you’re trying to add an unnecessary layer of complexity, with additional points of failure, to something that was designed from the ground up to continually work for a decade+ without any interruptions, and I have my own first hand experience to back it up with 5 different chillers, one of which is now more than a decade running non-stop.

That’s my 2 cents.

Thanks for your feedback,

I will take it into consideration on my 24 tanks

I am only new to the programming side of the hobby.

Once again, thanks for the feedback.

 

[DanyL]

If your 24 tanks are connected as a single large system, I would assume that you’re working with a heat exchanger rather than a regular chiller, which are indeed expect you to use an external controller.
However, they also expect you to use an industrial level controller, which are built to last, rather than our hobby level Apex/Profilix/Hydros which unfortunately are prone to failures.

Admittedly I’m not too familiar with these systems, and they likely do have different bounds than what I’m familiar with, but I do know that a local farm here works with industrial, high end Italian made controllers, purposely built to work with this kind of systems, and in fact have 2 heat exchangers running on each large system for redundancy, and use a hobby level controller (Profilux in their case) for monitoring only, which provides yet another layer of security.

Think this through, critical parts of our systems like temperature control must be reliable, especially when it’s a single point of failure on multi-tank systems.

Hope this helps.