Apex conversion to GHL

[vangvace]

fundamentally, most programming is the same - you create a logical sequence of decisions and steps. The differences arise in the implementation. Creating a system that is powerful and easy to use is not easy. Apex can be quite powerful but the more advanced programming gets to be fairly obtuse, too.

Since most controllers (Apex included) make the basic stuff fairly easy, I'm interested to hear your comparison between the two for the more advanced programming.

You mention a 'maintenance mode.' Apex allows 4 'feed' modes which are really just timed controller states that you can use for whatever you want. It sounds like the GHL has dedicated feed modes vs maintenance modes? What's the difference and how are they implemented? Is there a limit on how many you can have?

A somewhat annoying limitation of the Apex is the only way you can trigger a feed mode is through the fusion interface; you can't use a button or other programming to trigger them. Can you do so with the GHL?

Implementation is different for certain. For Apex, each "thing" has it's own programming so if multiple items use the same logic you copy/paste it to each thing... such as failback or 'feed mode' for waterchanges or feeding for example. For GHL, you set the logic at a central logic location and then point to it.

At this point, I would say that GHL is at the early Fusion days before their wizards really helped walk you through basic programming.
Edit: I would also add that the because GHL uses logic gates for it's programming it can be harder to wrap your head around initially.

GHL does have 4 dedicated feed modes and 4 dedicated maintenance modes. Of the 8... I use 2. One for waterchanges and the other for cleaning my algaescrubber. They start as simple off for X amount of time functions, but you can also set logic. For example a logic of Maintenance 4 and delay 300 would delay a device from turning back on after Maintenance 4 for 300 seconds. A 5 minute timer for a skimmer to turn back on after a waterchange to keep the skimmer from overflowing.

Yes you can! https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/guide-using-buttons-and-switches-with-plm-adin-card.773341/ The old display interface would allow you to one touch into maintenance mode as well. I never bothered to look to see if I can do it from the front panel of the controller itself though.

 

[Billldg]

Implementation is different for certain. For Apex, each "thing" has it's own programming so if multiple items use the same logic you copy/paste it to each thing... such as failback or 'feed mode' for waterchanges or feeding for example. For GHL, you set the logic at a central logic location and then point to it.

At this point, I would say that GHL is at the early Fusion days before their wizards really helped walk you through basic programming.
Edit: I would also add that the because GHL uses logic gates for it's programming it can be harder to wrap your head around initially.

GHL does have 4 dedicated feed modes and 4 dedicated maintenance modes. Of the 8... I use 2. One for waterchanges and the other for cleaning my algaescrubber. They start as simple off for X amount of time functions, but you can also set logic. For example a logic of Maintenance 4 and delay 300 would delay a device from turning back on after Maintenance 4 for 300 seconds. A 5 minute timer for a skimmer to turn back on after a waterchange to keep the skimmer from overflowing.

Yes you can! https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/guide-using-buttons-and-switches-with-plm-adin-card.773341/ The old display interface would allow you to one touch into maintenance mode as well. I never bothered to look to see if I can do it from the front panel of the controller itself though.

Thank you for explaining.

 

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

The KH Director measures a ph shift in the sample water and will error out if the test takes to long to complete.

You can also annotate how much reagent is in the holding container and a low volume warning. 500ml or 1000ml if you use their bottles, but it is user definable. The same annotation can be made for the discharge line of the director if you are placing it into a waste container so it can be emptied. I personally, empty back into the sump. The calculated usage is based on the individual dosing pump head's calibrations.

I hope that helps.

That's how i run it. You could also place float valve/sensor in the reagent if you're using a dosing container. Have it alarm if triggered by low volume.

But just resetting the volume amount when you refill every few months is easy enough.

 

[ingchr1]

....Yes you can! https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/guide-using-buttons-and-switches-with-plm-adin-card.773341/ The old display interface would allow you to one touch into maintenance mode as well. I never bothered to look to see if I can do it from the front panel of the controller itself though.

On the P4 pressing the "X" on the front panel will take you directly to the feed modes for selection. On the Mini it will start the feed mode, as there is only one.

 

[Billldg]

I will say, and I am not sure if its because I am a Mod, or because I was outspoken in the live stream about the BRS Neptune merger, but Neptune and their service department have been great to me. I will point this out, as I try to be fully transparent and hold nothing back. They have emailed me, and called me several times to get the Trident, and now FMM module issue, taken care of. I, personally, can't say that I have had a bad experience with the Neptune service dept. so far.

This will always be a fully honest and transparent thread.

 

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

I was able to recalibrate the KH Director dosing lines and for the last four tests over the course of a couple days, i have had results within 0.1 of the hanna. Wonder if this will hold? Doesn't really matter to me, i just want a consistent number whatever it is, but a curiosity if calibration has something to with disparities.

 

[Billldg]

I just thought of something, with both the Apex Fusion and GHL dashboard open. I have asked Neptune several times to actually use the full screen, meaning not just use 3 rows, in fusion. It obviously fell on death ears. In reality, most people use a wide screen on their computer, and not a standard 4:3 monitor. GHL uses the whole screen, meaning a 16:9 screen, Neptune does not.

 

[Hydrored]

In my never-ending circle of throwing money away to get rid of all Neptune products, I'm at a point where I'm stuck on how to replace the ATO. Does anyone know if the doser 2.1 is capable of pulling water up 18' then over and down another roughly 40'? Was thinking to just buy a doser to have in the tank cabinet instead of having something in the garage. Thoughts?

Another issue is if that line ever came loose it could siphon 65 gallons of fresh water in my stand.

I have now finally gotten rid of the need for DOS's and the Trident using the Alatronic and Dosetronic, all I have left is the ATO and AWC. I guess I have a question if I could do the same for AWC since it's the same distance?

Thanks-

Hydro

 

[t5Nitro]

In my never-ending circle of throwing money away to get rid of all Neptune products, I'm at a point where I'm stuck on how to replace the ATO. Does anyone know if the doser 2.1 is capable of pulling water up 18' then over and down another roughly 40'? Was thinking to just buy a doser to have in the tank cabinet instead of having something in the garage. Thoughts?

Another issue is if that line ever came loose it could siphon 65 gallons of fresh water in my stand.

I have now finally gotten rid of the need for DOS's and the Trident using the Alatronic and Dosetronic, all I have left is the ATO and AWC. I guess I have a question if I could do the same for AWC since it's the same distance?

Thanks-

Hydro

If you're interested in having ATO and AWC I'd highly recommend going with the litermeter 3 (or are they up to LM4?) and the ATO units from Spectrapure. Mine will pump water 40 feet vertically and horizontally without any difficulty. I'd have to say out of all the junk made for this hobby, spectrapure nailed it with their ATO and AWC systems. Significantly better than the competitors.

I'm interested in hearing more about your automated setup as it stands. I'm in the same position looking for aquarium controllers and want to stay away from the Apex system.

 

[Hydrored]

If you're interested in having ATO and AWC I'd highly recommend going with the litermeter 3 (or are they up to LM4?) and the ATO units from Spectrapure. Mine will pump water 40 feet vertically and horizontally without any difficulty. I'd have to say out of all the junk made for this hobby, spectrapure nailed it with their ATO and AWC systems. Significantly better than the competitors.

I'm interested in hearing more about your automated setup as it stands. I'm in the same position looking for aquarium controllers and want to stay away from the Apex system.

I have an ethernet wired for Apex communication along with three 1/4" lines ran from the tank to the garage at my mixing station. I have an FMM, DOS, and powerbar there. The PMUP actually gets water to the reef tank as once it gets it up into the attic it's all downhill from there.

I could also just place a 2.1 doser in the garage along with buying a long PAB cable for ATO and water changes.

I'm running Apex 2016, 4 DOS's, 4 Power bars, Trident, ATK, and an extra heat/ph probe. I already have the Alkatronic and Dosetronic to replace the Trident and the DOS used for dosing 4 part. I just need the controller, power bars, and to figure out ATO and AWC (AWC is easy)

 

[vangvace]

I have an ethernet wired for Apex communication along with three 1/4" lines ran from the tank to the garage at my mixing station. I have an FMM, DOS, and powerbar there. The PMUP actually gets water to the reef tank as once it gets it up into the attic it's all downhill from there.

I could also just place a 2.1 doser in the garage along with buying a long PAB cable for ATO and water changes.

I'm running Apex 2016, 4 DOS's, 4 Power bars, Trident, ATK, and an extra heat/ph probe. I already have the Alkatronic and Dosetronic to replace the Trident and the DOS used for dosing 4 part. I just need the controller, power bars, and to figure out ATO and AWC (AWC is easy)

Just so you know, a PAB cable is an ethernet cable. You can do a powerbar at the mixing station with GHL level sensors in the sump and have an ATO.

Because of the distance from mixing station to the tank, you would need an expansion box if you wanted to have flow/leak sensors at the mixing station.

 

[Billldg]

Just so you know, a PAB cable is an ethernet cable. You can do a powerbar at the mixing station with GHL level sensors in the sump and have an ATO.

Because of the distance from mixing station to the tank, you would need an expansion box if you wanted to have flow/leak sensors at the mixing station.

I plan on adding as Expansion Box along with a 6e Powerbar. I will need the Expansion Box to add sensors.

In my never-ending circle of throwing money away to get rid of all Neptune products, I'm at a point where I'm stuck on how to replace the ATO. Does anyone know if the doser 2.1 is capable of pulling water up 18' then over and down another roughly 40'? Was thinking to just buy a doser to have in the tank cabinet instead of having something in the garage. Thoughts?

Another issue is if that line ever came loose it could siphon 65 gallons of fresh water in my stand.

I have now finally gotten rid of the need for DOS's and the Trident using the Alatronic and Dosetronic, all I have left is the ATO and AWC. I guess I have a question if I could do the same for AWC since it's the same distance?

Thanks-

Hydro

I am not sure on the head height of the pumps. I would say go with the Maxi Dosers, but not sure when the next Gen will come out.

 

[Hydrored]

I plan on adding as Expansion Box along with a 6e Powerbar. I will need the Expansion Box to add sensors.


I am not sure on the head height of the pumps. I would say go with the Maxi Dosers, but not sure when the next Gen will come out.

I can’t find any maxi dosers available

 

[Billldg]

I can’t find any maxi dosers available

The original stopped production. A gen 2 was introduced, but, put on hold I believe due to the epidemic, and, them needing to get the IOND out. I believe GHL is starting to focus on these other projects again and hopefully they will have the Maxi Doser 2 out.

@Vinny@GHLUSA
@Ditto

 

[Hydrored]

Just so you know, a PAB cable is an ethernet cable. You can do a powerbar at the mixing station with GHL level sensors in the sump and have an ATO.

Because of the distance from mixing station to the tank, you would need an expansion box if you wanted to have flow/leak sensors at the mixing station.

Good call, I can just buy the PMUP power supply. The issue is I still need to resolve the AWC, I will have to try and get my hands on a couple of versas to do that now. I'm open to just putting a 2.1 if GHL can confirm the head height.

 

[Hydrored]

The original stopped production. A gen 2 was introduced, but, put on hold I believe due to the epidemic, and, them needing to get the IOND out. I believe GHL is starting to focus on these other projects again and hopefully they will have the Maxi Doser 2 out.

@Vinny@GHLUSA
@Ditto

I'm ready to pull the trigger for everything with my new build, I'm just not willing to do so and not have a complete solution. I hate half-done solutions, I travel far too much for that.

 

[Billldg]

Good call, I can just buy the PMUP power supply. The issue is I still need to resolve the AWC, I will have to try and get my hands on a couple of versas to do that now. I'm open to just putting a 2.1 if GHL can confirm the head height.

I am using 2 Versa's right now. I may look into the Maxi Doser, when the 2nd Gen comes out. I use a 3rd Versa to keep my ATO full.

 

[Manny’s Reef]

The original stopped production. A gen 2 was introduced, but, put on hold I believe due to the epidemic, and, them needing to get the IOND out. I believe GHL is starting to focus on these other projects again and hopefully they will have the Maxi Doser 2 out.

@Vinny@GHLUSA
@Ditto

knock on wood because so many of us have been waiting for the gen 2. I hope we didn't just jynx its release date. Let's be real, as much as I love GHL, they have not necessarily been on time with release dates.

 

[Billldg]

knock on wood because so many of us have been waiting for the gen 2. I hope we didn't just jynx its release date. Let's be real, as much as I love GHL, they have not necessarily been on time with release dates.

I don't think any Jinx is available in this situation, as, their are way to many things going on right now. As far as release dates in the past few years, WHO HAS, been accurate...HMMM!!! The only difference between the others releases and the GHL IOND was the fact that GHL actually had to deal with the Covid outbreak. Neptune and Trident didn't and they failed miserably, and that's putting it mildly. They are only NOW catching up...ROUGHLY 2 plus years after the initial release...HMMM!!!

I WILL ASK GHL TO BE BETTER!!!

 

[vangvace]

Good call, I can just buy the PMUP power supply. The issue is I still need to resolve the AWC, I will have to try and get my hands on a couple of versas to do that now. I'm open to just putting a 2.1 if GHL can confirm the head height.

The 2.1 dosers cannot handle AWC and would wear out too quickly for it to be worth it.