Apex Jr/Gfci problem. Non-electrician needs advice!!

[glb]

I have a brand new Apex Jr. that was successfully programmed while Ethernet wired to my computer. When I moved the setup to my tank and plugged it into my gfci outlet, it tripped the outlet. I tried it on some gfci outlets in the kitchen and it worked fine. I plugged it into a regular outlet by the tank and it worked fine. The gfci outlet by the tank has had a regular power bar with all my equipment plugged into it and has worked flawlessly, never tripping once. All of the outlets in the tank room run on a 20amp (fuse/circuit breaker?) in the fuse box. When I plugged the apex power bar in, the other power bar was unplugged. For the life of me, I can't figure it out. Help!!!

 

[Smo]

I am not an electrician but have installed many GFCIs including a dedicated 20 amp circuit to my current tank employing an Apex Jr. GFCIs trip when an imbalance of current is sensed between the hot and neutral, meaning some current has bled to the ground.
I doubt there is anything wrong with the Apex. First thing I would check is the wiring in your outlet to ensure it is connected properly and there is good separation from the bare ground wire. A simple circuit tester you can find at any of the big box stores could be helpful.

 

[glb]

I am not an electrician but have installed many GFCIs including a dedicated 20 amp circuit to my current tank employing an Apex Jr. GFCIs trip when an imbalance of current is sensed between the hot and neutral, meaning some current has bled to the ground.
I doubt there is anything wrong with the Apex. First thing I would check is the wiring in your outlet to ensure it is connected properly and there is good separation from the bare ground wire. A simple circuit tester you can find at any of the big box stores could be helpful.

If the current power bar is still working in the same outlet, wouldn't that rule out problems with the outlet? I know the Apex power bar is different than a regular power bar, but shouldn't it work if the regular power bar does?? I appreciate your help!!!

 

[krullshards]

Is that GFCI rated for a lower current than the others? Is anything else plugged into it? Could it be that there is a bit of additional power draw with the apex that is pushing it over its limit?

 

[Smo]

If the current power bar is still working in the same outlet, wouldn't that rule out problems with the outlet? I know the Apex power bar is different than a regular power bar, but shouldn't it work if the regular power bar does?? I appreciate your help!!!

Possibly--but you said the Apex worked properly in other GFCI outlets. Could be you have an overly sensitive GFCI breaker if you are convinced the wiring is good.

 

[glb]

The GFCI for the tank was pretty inexpensive. I bought it and had an electrician install it. The others came with the house so they're probably better. I have no clue what any of them are rated for. As far as overload, there's nothing else this outlet is used for. I designated it to only be used for the tank. When I first plugged the Apex in, I plugged it into the existing power bar and the GFCI tripped. Then I tried plugging the apex into the outlet with the other powerbar plugged into the same outlet. That tripped too. Finally, I unplugged everything else and plugged in only the Apex. Trip-o-Rama. I guess it's possible the GFCI is able to handle the regular powerbar and not the Apex, but the regular powerbar has everything plugged into it and it works fine. The apex didn't have anything plugged into it when I plugged it into the wall. It just doesn't make sense.

 

[glb]

Possibly--but you said the Apex worked properly in other GFCI outlets. Could be you have an overly sensitive GFCI breaker if you are convinced the wiring is good.

I'm not convinced it's good because I know nothing about electricity. Lol. Does the Apex itself draw a huge amount of power?

 

[Smo]

If the power bar works, the other thing I would check for is stray voltage in your tank with all the equipment running. If you see more than a few volts between one meter lead submerged into the water and the other to a ground terminal on the power bar or an extension cord plugged into the power bar or outlet--I would be concerned. In that case I would start unplugging individual equipment items until I found the source.
Also, You did not mention whether the Apex tripped the GFCI with or without equipment plugged into its EB.

 

[glb]

If the power bar works, the other thing I would check for is stray voltage in your tank with all the equipment running. If you see more than a few volts between one meter lead submerged into the water and the other to a ground terminal on the power bar or an extension cord plugged into the power bar or outlet--I would be concerned. In that case I would start unplugging individual equipment items until I found the source.
Also, You did not mention whether the Apex tripped the GFCI with or without equipment plugged into its EB.

The power bar works. When I originally plugged it in, none of the equipment was plugged into it. The powerbar works. In fact, I plugged it into another outlet (non-GFCI so temporary) and plugged everything into it and everything's running fine right now. I can't check any of the settings (feed) because the display unit currently shows a blank screen (another problem). The Neptune troubleshooting said to leave it unplugged for 24hrs so that's what I'm doing. Then there's the problem with connecting it wirelessly but I digress.

 

[Smo]

Assuming the GFCI is good and the wiring to the outlet...you'll have to check for stray voltage. That's the purpose of the GFCI...to protect you from being electrocuted by stray voltage.
The 24 hour wait sounds suspicious to me. Have you performed a reset and loaded the current AOS (operating software)?
Hardwiring my Apex to my router was relatively easy. In your case you will need something like a Netgear wireless remote you can program with your laptop and then connect the Apex to it. Likely easier than string Cat-5 wire throughout your house.
When you get past the learning curve and have the Apex up and running you will love it.

 

[glb]

Assuming the GFCI is good and the wiring to the outlet...you'll have to check for stray voltage. That's the purpose of the GFCI...to protect you from being electrocuted by stray voltage.
The 24 hour wait sounds suspicious to me. Have you performed a reset and loaded the current AOS (operating software)?
Hardwiring my Apex to my router was relatively easy. In your case you will need something like a Netgear wireless remote you can program with your laptop and then connect the Apex to it. Likely easier than string Cat-5 wire throughout your house.
When you get past the learning curve and have the Apex up and running you will love it.

Is the reset when you hold down that button on the unit for 15 seconds? I did that. Remember I can't access the menu on the display. I read how to do it that way. I'll go back and check the Neptune info. I thought that's what it said if the display wasn't working. If you're asking if I have the latest firmware, yes, I did that during setup.

 

[glb]

Assuming the GFCI is good and the wiring to the outlet...you'll have to check for stray voltage. That's the purpose of the GFCI...to protect you from being electrocuted by stray voltage.
The 24 hour wait sounds suspicious to me. Have you performed a reset and loaded the current AOS (operating software)?
Hardwiring my Apex to my router was relatively easy. In your case you will need something like a Netgear wireless remote you can program with your laptop and then connect the Apex to it. Likely easier than string Cat-5 wire throughout your house.
When you get past the learning curve and have the Apex up and running you will love it.

I bought a wireless router and can't get it to work either. Lol. If I could get that up and running I could access the unit with Fusion.

 

[Rikki Reef]

Not an electrician, but dabbled a few years GFCI or sensitive and ware out. If everything worked on another than change out the GFCI for Tank make sure the new one has WR on the front they are rated for outside also get 20 amp. turn off breaker than remove old one, one at a time remove and install wires just make sure you are on the Line side and not load it is marked on back, check the screws silver is white/neutral wire brass is black/Hot, green is ground. most important that all wires are tight, If ground is loose it will trip. reinstall, if metal box? wrap the outlet with ele. tape to cover screws and striped wires. put cover back on than reset breaker, before and after you change outlet plug unit in than one at a time start plugging everything in if it trips the last item is the one that has the fault. as far as wifi I had to hardwired mine up 1st than get tech involve to set up Ip that wasn't being recognized once got thru that unplugged Ethernet cable and good to go. hope this helps?

 

[glb]

Not an electrician, but dabbled a few years GFCI or sensitive and ware out. If everything worked on another than change out the GFCI for Tank make sure the new one has WR on the front they are rated for outside also get 20 amp. turn off breaker than remove old one, one at a time remove and install wires just make sure you are on the Line side and not load it is marked on back, check the screws silver is white/neutral wire brass is black/Hot, green is ground. most important that all wires are tight, If ground is loose it will trip. reinstall, if metal box? wrap the outlet with ele. tape to cover screws and striped wires. put cover back on than reset breaker, before and after you change outlet plug unit in than one at a time start plugging everything in if it trips the last item is the one that has the fault. as far as wifi I had to hardwired mine up 1st than get tech involve to set up Ip that wasn't being recognized once got thru that unplugged Ethernet cable and good to go. hope this helps?

Wow! You know a lot more about electricity than I do. Replacing the GFCI is probably a good idea but I don't know how to do it myself.

 

[Rikki Reef]

if you know the breaker that covers the outlet turn it off, you should be fine, you tube it and if your still not comfortable, call a electrician. good luck

 

[glb]

Ok here's another wrinkle. When I originally had this outlet installed, I had it put lower than the existing outlet so the cord would be less noticeable I installed the GFCI on the new lower outlet:

The electrician ran the wiring from the upper one to the lower one so they're linked. When the gfci outlet tripped, I realized another outlet was linked. On the other side of this wall is the bathroom outlet, and it has a gfci too:

I realized that this gfci trips when I plug in the apex to the new outlet. The power won't restore until I reset this one. So...I have 2 gfci outlets going. It seems that the bathroom one is 'in charge'. Is this setup a problem? The first time I plugged in the apex it was in the new outlet. When that tripped I tried the upper outlet and the same thing happened. The bathroom outlet isn't new and the gfci has been there all along. And the upper outlet goes off when the bathroom gfci trips. Sorry for the longwindedness but I wondered if the electrician installed this right and if having two gfci outlets could be contributing to the problem. I really appreciate everyone's help because electricity isn't something I mess with!

 

[Smo]

Ok here's another wrinkle. When I originally had this outlet installed, I had it put lower than the existing outlet so the cord would be less noticeable I installed the GFCI on the new lower outlet:

The electrician ran the wiring from the upper one to the lower one so they're linked. When the gfci outlet tripped, I realized another outlet was linked. On the other side of this wall is the bathroom outlet, and it has a gfci too:

I realized that this gfci trips when I plug in the apex to the new outlet. The power won't restore until I reset this one. So...I have 2 gfci outlets going. It seems that the bathroom one is 'in charge'. Is this setup a problem? The first time I plugged in the apex it was in the new outlet. When that tripped I tried the upper outlet and the same thing happened. The bathroom outlet isn't new and the gfci has been there all along. And the upper outlet goes off when the bathroom gfci trips. Sorry for the longwindedness but I wondered if the electrician installed this right and if having two gfci outlets could be contributing to the problem. I really appreciate everyone's help because electricity isn't something I mess with!

Good detective work. Sounds like the new GFCI was connected to the load side of an existing GFCI. That's a problem. Suggest you call an electrician to sort it out--and not the guy that did the original work for you.

 

[Phillyd1990]

It sounds to me like the new gfci is wired incorrectly. I would check to make sure it is wired correctly. Hot and neutral wires to the right terminals as well as the ground and that they are not flip flopped. Also there is no need to have the new gfci wired off the load side of the exsisting gfci which is why when the new one trips it trips the other as well. It would be better to have the new one directly in line with the breaker. If your not comfortable with taking the device out there is a tool that you can plug into it and it will tell you if its wired correctly.

 

[Paul B]

I realized that this gfci trips when I plug in the apex to the new outlet. The power won't restore until I reset this one. So...I have 2 gfci outlets going. It seems that the bathroom one is 'in charge'. Is this setup a problem?

If that is not the problem you are experiencing now, it is still a problem as you should not have two GFCIs connected together.
I was a master electrician for 40 years in Manhattan (retired now) and Leviton who makes the things sent me to school for them when they invented them.

Having said that, all GFIs or as we call them here GFCIs are not created equally although they are supposed to be. About half of them will trip if you connect the neutral side of it to the load. Half will not even if they are from the same manufacturer. I don't know why but I use the ones that will trip like that for my DIY over flow shut off switches.
They used to be made here in New York and I am sure they are now made in China so their electronics in my mind are questionable.
Good luck

 

[Rikki Reef]

not a problem if bath is the lead than all you need is a regular outlet for tank that is protected by bath thats what should be coming from the load side of that GFCI