Apex Jr. keeps resetting

[jasonrusso]

My phone woke me up at 3:00 today with a warning from my tank. The warning was "OFF" which I sometimes get from a quick power flash because the power out warning wasn't triggered yet. I knew the power hadn't gone out because the clocks were all still accurate. I didn't think too much about it, but it happened again a few minutes later. This time, I heard my pumps stop and start and I heard the beep from my Tunze ATO indicating that the power cycled.

I got up to check things out. Everything was running fine. I checked the plugs to make sure they were tight and there were no leaks, etc. As I was standing there, it happened again. Everything shuts down for a second, and restarts.

Now, I have the Apex JR, with 1 return pump and 1 heater. I have 2 EB 8's with various things, but one has the 2nd return pump and one has the ATO. I mention this because all of them turn off. If it was a single EB8 issue, everything wouldn't turn off. I unplugged the EB8s one at a time, but I couldn't simulate the condition. Even unplugging the Apex JR still keeps the ATO and 2nd return pump on.

I had the Apex Jr. plugged into a APC UPS with a big battery for emergency purposes. I thought that may be an issue, so I plugged the Apex directly into an outlet and the problem still happens. The Apex and each EB8 are on separate GFCIs so I don't lose the whole system if something trips, and the GFCIs aren't tripped.

It seems like it is the Apex Jr that is resetting and possibly faulty, it's the only thing that can explain the Main module and both EB8s all resetting at the same time. It's not a heater, my heaters never turn on. I don't have anything that turns on and off like wavemakers. The lights were off except for the low power moonlights.

The firmware is up to date according to Fusion. Other than a faulty Apex Jr module, I am not really sure. It is on a Netgear WIFI module to connect to the internet. I read a loosely similar thread from years ago that someone had a network issue, but I don't see how that would cause this. I can see how that would cause a Fusion connection issue, but it shouldn't make the entire system reboot.

 

[MnFish1]

My phone woke me up at 3:00 today with a warning from my tank. The warning was "OFF" which I sometimes get from a quick power flash because the power out warning wasn't triggered yet. I knew the power hadn't gone out because the clocks were all still accurate. I didn't think too much about it, but it happened again a few minutes later. This time, I heard my pumps stop and start and I heard the beep from my Tunze ATO indicating that the power cycled.

I got up to check things out. Everything was running fine. I checked the plugs to make sure they were tight and there were no leaks, etc. As I was standing there, it happened again. Everything shuts down for a second, and restarts.

Now, I have the Apex JR, with 1 return pump and 1 heater. I have 2 EB 8's with various things, but one has the 2nd return pump and one has the ATO. I mention this because all of them turn off. If it was a single EB8 issue, everything wouldn't turn off. I unplugged the EB8s one at a time, but I couldn't simulate the condition. Even unplugging the Apex JR still keeps the ATO and 2nd return pump on.

I had the Apex Jr. plugged into a APC UPS with a big battery for emergency purposes. I thought that may be an issue, so I plugged the Apex directly into an outlet and the problem still happens. The Apex and each EB8 are on separate GFCIs so I don't lose the whole system if something trips, and the GFCIs aren't tripped.

It seems like it is the Apex Jr that is resetting and possibly faulty, it's the only thing that can explain the Main module and both EB8s all resetting at the same time. It's not a heater, my heaters never turn on. I don't have anything that turns on and off like wavemakers. The lights were off except for the low power moonlights.

The firmware is up to date according to Fusion. Other than a faulty Apex Jr module, I am not really sure. It is on a Netgear WIFI module to connect to the internet. I read a loosely similar thread from years ago that someone had a network issue, but I don't see how that would cause this. I can see how that would cause a Fusion connection issue, but it shouldn't make the entire system reboot.

I had a similar problem with a 'regular apex'. (on a couple different occasions - with a couple different causes). 1. The GFCI was defective and that was causing a problem taking it offline fixed the problem. 2. There was a bad chip in the apex - and the only way to fix this was replacement of the chip (which they kindly did without cost). 3. There were indeed power surges that for some reason were causing an issue with the apex - but not enough to cause the GFI to 'flip'. I would definitely contact Neptune with your exact problem... For example I'm not sure what you exactly mean by 'resetting'.

It sounds like you have done a lot of troubleshooting - and based on what you've said - it sounds like an issue with the apex itself (or a problem within one of the EB's). hope this helped a little - I am not that familiar with the Apex Junior - but are you sure that your heater is plugged into the appropriate plug in the EB8 - watt-wise (even though it doesnt come on? Not sure why that would cause resetting - but I know if the heater is not plugged into a correct plug issues can happen. Additionally - the maximum number of modules for an Apex Jr is 7 (plus a display) - it sounds like you are under that level as well. Hope this helps!

 

[_AV]

Quite possible that the problem is with the head unit. It's also possible that the aquabus/usb connectors are corroded.
Your head unit is probably powered by one of your EB8 via aquabus cable. If there is a corrosion on either end and the power is intermittent, then your head unit power cycles randomly. Each time it turns on, it also power cycles all modules connected to it, including all EB8s.
The reason you don't lose power on your outlets even with the head unit disconnected is because of the fallback built into each EB8 and your outlet programming.
Try a different aquabus port on the head unit for EB8 connection, a different aquabus cable, or the other EB8 to power the head unit. If nothing helps, there could be an issue within the head unit.

 

[jasonrusso]

Quite possible that the problem is with the head unit. It's also possible that the aquabus/usb connectors are corroded.
Your head unit is probably powered by one of your EB8 via aquabus cable. If there is a corrosion on either end and the power is intermittent, then your head unit power cycles randomly. Each time it turns on, it also power cycles all modules connected to it, including all EB8s.
The reason you don't loose power on your outlets even with the head unit disconnected is because of the fallback built into each EB8 and your outlet programming.
Try a different aquabus port on the head unit for EB8 connection, a different aquabus cable, or the other EB8 to power the head unit. If nothing helps, there could be an issue within the head unit.

The APEX Jr has it's own power cable.

Yes, I realize that the outlets stay on because of the fallback programming, that's why I feel like it's the head unit commanding the outlets off. If it was just losing a data connection, the EB8s would stay on just like when I unplug the power cable on the head unit.

 

[infinite0180]

I had a jr that died in a similar fashion. Luckily i had already bought the 2016 EL on black friday. It was my motivation to finally set it up...

 

[jasonrusso]

I had a jr that died in a similar fashion. Luckily i had already bought the 2016 EL on black friday. It was my motivation to finally set it up...

Same scenario?

 

[_AV]

The APEX Jr has it's own power cable.

Yes, I realize that the outlets stay on because of the fallback programming, that's why I feel like it's the head unit commanding the outlets off. If it was just losing a data connection, the EB8s would stay on just like when I unplug the power cable on the head unit.

Hmm... between the power cable and aquabus power, if the unit is good, it'd stay on. There is still a plausible chance that both the power jack and the aquabus port are not conducting reliably, but other failures are likely. Apex Jr is an old unit. Internal failure, often due to corrosion, is a reasonable guess.

 

[jasonrusso]

Hmm... between the power cable and aquabus power, if the unit is good, it'd stay on. There is a still a plausible chance that both the power jack and the aquabus port are not conducting reliably, but other failures are likely. Apex Jr is an old unit. Internal failure, often due to corrosion, is a reasonable guess.

That's what I'm thinking too. I guess old is relative, I bought it new 4 years ago.

 

[infinite0180]

Same scenario?

Pretty much. I was on the latest firmware and things were working fine. Came home from work and it was off. I would restart it and it would work for a sec then power down. Fusion would not connect either...

 

[jasonrusso]

3. There were indeed power surges that for some reason were causing an issue with the apex - but not enough to cause the GFI to 'flip'. I would definitely contact Neptune with your exact problem... For example I'm not sure what you exactly mean by 'resetting'.

There is another tank in the same room with an Apex that doesn't have this issue.

Resetting means the entire system shuts down for a second then turns back on.

 

[_AV]

That's what I'm thinking too. I guess old is relative, I bought it new 4 years ago.

In Neptune's world, if it's past the warranty, it's old Many EB832s never even make it that far.

Moisture and humidity is also a big factor in these units.

 

[MnFish1]

There is another tank in the same room with an Apex that doesn't have this issue.

Resetting means the entire system shuts down for a second then turns back on.

Yes - I had exactly the same issue - I had 2 apex one (the older version) worked flawlessly) - the second one constantly reset. Neptune originally thought it was wifi - finally I sent it in - 2 chips needed replacement. Looking on the Neptune support page - I have read 'there is no problem connecting an EB8 and and EB4 to the Apex Junior'. Since Firmware version (I think 4.4) - you can connect up to 7 modules to the apex Junior. Again hope this helps (and this was an older article - perhaps now the Apex Jr has been upgraded further to allow 2 EB8s

 

[MnFish1]

In Neptune's world, if it's past the warranty, it's old Many EB832s never even make it that far.

Moisture and humidity is also big factor in these units.

Once NICE thing about Neptune - is that they will often work with you to replace a faulty chip, etc - even its out of warranty - or they will give an honest opinion as to wheter its fixable. At least In my experience

 

[jasonrusso]

Yes - I had exactly the same issue - I had 2 apex one (the older version) worked flawlessly) - the second one constantly reset. Neptune originally thought it was wifi - finally I sent it in - 2 chips needed replacement. Looking on the Neptune support page - I have read 'there is no problem connecting an EB8 and and EB4 to the Apex Junior'. Since Firmware version (I think 4.4) - you can connect up to 7 modules to the apex Junior. Again hope this helps (and this was an older article - perhaps now the Apex Jr has been upgraded further to allow 2 EB8s

It's been running this way for 3 years, so I can confirm it's compatible, lol!

 

[jasonrusso]

So, If I just plug the 3 used outlets in the JR into a power strip, everything is going to just keep running like as it is now correct? There will be no control but nothing is going to shut off. Whatever is on now will stay on.

 

[_AV]

That's correct. The EB8 will not switch them off until it receives a command from the head unit.

 

[jasonrusso]

That's correct. The EB8 will not switch them off until it receives a command from the head unit.

I'll probably do that until I nail down what's happening. I'd rather have no control than have the head unit go haywire and start turning off outlets

 

[MnFish1]

It's been running this way for 3 years, so I can confirm it's compatible, lol!

You are correct - assuming the number of modules total is less than 7. Each EB counts as a module, a display counts as a module, and whatever else you have. Only trying to help. I can tell you from personal experience - these resetting issues can also be related to module compatibility (or a bad module) - not necessarily the EB8 or the head unit. Here is an answer straight from the 'horses mouth': "
Random resets are usually due to corrupted firmware. Update your firmware. If the problem persists after updating firmware, contact support since the other reason is usually a hardware issue that only they can resolve."

PS - I know you said you updated your firmware - would consider re-updating it - plus updating the firmware on any modules you have. Many people have reported (in the past) this resetting issue with an automatic feeder - which resolved when disconnected.

 

[jasonrusso]

You are correct - assuming the number of modules total is less than 7. Each EB counts as a module, a display counts as a module, and whatever else you have. Only trying to help. I can tell you from personal experience - these resetting issues can also be related to module compatibility (or a bad module) - not necessarily the EB8 or the head unit. Here is an answer straight from the 'horses mouth': "
Random resets are usually due to corrupted firmware. Update your firmware. If the problem persists after updating firmware, contact support since the other reason is usually a hardware issue that only they can resolve."

PS - I know you said you updated your firmware - would consider re-updating it - plus updating the firmware on any modules you have. Many people have reported (in the past) this resetting issue with an automatic feeder - which resolved when disconnected.

I'll check again, but last time I checked there were no recommended updates. No automatic feeder.

 

[MnFish1]

I'll check again, but last time I checked there were no recommended updates. No automatic feeder.

yes - my point was you might have the 'current firmware' - but it might be corrupted - so re-installing it may help. Ditto with the firmware for all of your modules. The other point - its not just the automatic feeder modules that can be an issue - its various combinations of different modules (the feeder was just an example). So - for example - the module xxx can work great on its own but if you add module yyy it can cause resets. Anyway these were just the ideas given by Neptune when I had the issue - and like I said - in the end I needed to send the EB and the unit itself in for repair. in the meantime - I merely plugged everything into a couple power strips.