Apex Neptune Worth It?

[AcanthurusRex]

The real value of the Apex is Fusion.

 

[dhof]

I like what it does it’s just so expensive. I’m on the fence. $800 to tell me a heater broke or my salinity is off is steep. I dip the $60 Hannah tester in and get temp and salinity

If you enjoy programming, it can be quite a bit more functional than just reporting errors/dangerous conditions. For example, on my evening feed mode, my pumps delay for 10 minutes to feed, but this is when I dose Amino acids and Phyto, so I can keep the skimmer off for 30 more minutes beyond the pump. Another example is that I have programmed a maintenance switch that puts a delay on the ATO for 30 minutes after I do maintenance. This gives me a chance to manually correct water level or salinity before the ATO starts pushing fresh RODI into the tank. Or having programming that prevents addition of soda ash part if your PH exceeds something like 8.45. Or when you want to feed corals, you can make a switch that turns off only certain pumps and certain wavemakers without having to manually remember which ones you want to switch off all the time. All this takes time to program, but some people like me really enjoy programming and setting up consistent and repeatable actions. Lastly, being able to say "Alexa tell Apex Fusion to restart the skimmer" or whatever is really great when your hands are full.

Here's an example of my ATO programming: It basically says if the high ATO eye sees water, do not run the ATO. If the Low ATO eye doesn't see water, turn on the ATO pump until the eye sees water again and then stop. If the ATO pump runs for more than 55 seconds at any time, stop it. If the low ATO eye sees things change within 30 minutes, ignore it. If I'm doing maintenance, or if my return pump is off, or if there is a leak detected then do not run the ATO pump. Under certain conditions (like after maintenance) keep the ATO off for a deferred period of time before it runs. And if there is an error or an unexpected condition (housed separately in the alarm line item), then keep the ATO pump off. This is pretty fun to program and think through, but it is also something you cannot do all these facets of without something like an Apex. I probably have 10 or 20 outlets programmed with this level of redundancy and thought, and it makes for excellent reefkeeping.

Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If HI_H2O CLOSED Then OFF
If LO_H2O OPEN Then ON
When On > 000:55 Then OFF
Defer 000:05 Then ON
Defer 000:04 Then OFF
Min Time 030:00 Then OFF
If Output VR_Maint = ON Then OFF
If Output Cor_8_1 = OFF Then OFF
If Output VR_Leak = ON Then OFF
If Output VR_ATODefer = ON Then OFF
If Output VR_ALRM_ATO = ON Then OFF

 

[gobble]

Get an Alkatronic + calcium reactor and you'll never even consider the trident. I've been running that setup and my alk (and calcium) are dead on stable.

I have an apex, and love my apex, but everything else neptune makes besides the apex is junk so I don't have high hopes of the trident being a reliable piece of equipment.

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

Hello! Newbie question here.

I’m about six months into a new 120G reef tank. Nothing too complicated - lights, skimmer, powerhead, heater, return pump. I’ll use a Tunze ATO when I’m out of town, and AWC isn’t feasible.

I like the idea of an Apex for fault monitoring (bad heater, bad pump, power outage (?)) and to monitor tank parameters. But wondering if it’s really worth it if my system isn’t overly complicated. Are there other systems I should consider?

Thanks in advance!

No matter what we all say, you have the last say. If, you want to be multimillionaire, you do what Warren Buffett does, you want to sing like a superstar do what Beyonce does. You wanta run with the SPS boys, see what it takes to maintain successful reef tanks and just do it. Simple as that.

 

[robbyg]

No matter what we all say, you have the last say. If, you want to be multimillionaire, you do what Warren Buffett does, you want to sing like a superstar do what Beyonce does. You wanta run with the SPS boys, see what it takes to maintain successful reef tanks and just do it. Simple as that.

Okay I am confused!
I know several very successful SPS tank owners that run controllers and go all out in automation like I do and I also know guys who use almost no automation and also have very successful SPS tanks. I am not mocking your post but what direction are you telling him to go in?

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

Okay I am confused!
I know several very successful SPS tank owners that run controllers and go all out in automation like I do and I also know guys who use almost no automation and also have very successful SPS tanks. I am not mocking your post but what direction are you telling him to go in?

He know the answer, just planting some seeds,,in the end , he knows what he can afford, needs or wants, and no matter how we see the glass half full, he'll see it half empty. We're only communicating here.

 

[Mical]

I was surprised to read the Apex BRS reviews...more 1 star comments then I would have expected.

I'll bet most of those 1 star reviews are "user error issues", it's very easy to get confused setting up and programming. I know I've made a few errors in the beginning. Don't get me wrong I'm not defending Neptune Apex but I have suggested to BRS to do a series of in-depth videos of step by step - setting up, mounting, wiring and programming an Apex to a basic tank. The current collection of Apex videos by Neptune and BRS are very scattered segments from over the years. They need to start from scratch with an unboxing, laying out the equipment, attaching to a basic tank (like a 40 breeder) calibrating Ph probe and basic programming for the simplest of monitoring programs. Maybe if BRS did one of their "live events" on YouTube similar to their latest sales videos, where watchers could ask questions while Randy or Bryan actually set up an Apex on a basic tank, it would make it easier for folks to see it's not that hard. SuncrestReef here on R2R has excellent tutorials on apex programming - https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/neptune-apex-programming-tutorials-part-1.685/ BRS needs to duplicate these to some extent in a video format. I bet their Apex sales would explode if/when they did this because it would make the Apex learning curve much easier.

Again controllers are not necessary to have a successful reef (as are skimmers) but it is a tool and does make reef keeping easier on many fronts IMO. And again they don't come cheap, but from my limited experience, once biting the bullet on price and learning the basics, my controller has made keeping my tanks stability easier and I have a visual on both tanks 24/7. Just my 2cents

 

[Bruce60]

I have well over 10k into my systems and probably 5000 hours of time spent on them. I use stand alone systems like Ranco for temperature control. Industrial grade that will outlive any apex. I test salinity every few days with a refractometer, it takes 3 seconds. I have Wyze cameras on my tank and on my sump, I have a controllable powerbar made for servers that I can control from my phone anywhere in the world and write programs for with a lot more flexibility than Neptune systems gives. I don’t see what the draw to Neptune specifically is. My powerbar, WiFi cameras, temp controller, etc., all together cost me less than $200.

Hemmdog, you are a tribute to what dedicated reefers can accomplish in the DIY world. For each of us it is a choice between best of breed or an integrated solution. There are those like you who enjoy putting together solutions from different manufacturers to create the best solution for their needs. Others are willing to have a "good enough" quality component to have easy integration. I have done it both ways over the years, and there is merit to both solutions. In the end it is a personal choice.

 

[User1]

Controllers help, yes. Couple choices to choose from be it off the shelf like you asked about (Neptune) and GHL or open source being DIY reefpi based systems or another named Reef Angel. Viability of them comes down to your requirements and plans. Once you have that you can sort of narrow it down.

Since in your post you specifically asked about the Neptune Apex I will answer having owned one. "My" opinion based on using Neptune products is yes, they are worth it. I go back to one of the original Neptune controllers that used the X10 relays. I've always had pretty good reliability and great support. Because of my history with them I've pretty much stayed with them ever since and continue to have solid reliability with the products I use of theirs. I don't have a lot of their products compared to others but the Cor return pumps, VDM and ATO modules, Apex, and Trident all work and continue to do as expected. I also just finished up a heave travel year and on a couple occasions I was able to look at something remotely to have my better half fix something before it became an issue.

TL;DR - yes, it is worth it. However, you need to know what you want ahead of time so you can choose what is right for you.

 

[mike550]

Controllers help, yes. Couple choices to choose from be it off the shelf like you asked about (Neptune) and GHL or open source being DIY reefpi based systems or another named Reef Angel. Viability of them comes down to your requirements and plans. Once you have that you can sort of narrow it down.

Since in your post you specifically asked about the Neptune Apex I will answer having owned one. "My" opinion based on using Neptune products is yes, they are worth it. I go back to one of the original Neptune controllers that used the X10 relays. I've always had pretty good reliability and great support. Because of my history with them I've pretty much stayed with them ever since and continue to have solid reliability with the products I use of theirs. I don't have a lot of their products compared to others but the Cor return pumps, VDM and ATO modules, Apex, and Trident all work and continue to do as expected. I also just finished up a heave travel year and on a couple occasions I was able to look at something remotely to have my better half fix something before it became an issue.

TL;DR - yes, it is worth it. However, you need to know what you want ahead of time so you can choose what is right for you.

@saf1 thanks for your thoughts. I am considering Neptune because it seems the most popular. But I’m also very interested in the CoralVue Hydros system as well. But that is more of a wait and see for me. The good news is that I’ll probably hold off a bit longer on selecting a controller. So more time to organize my thoughts.

 

[MnFish1]

Hello! Newbie question here.

I’m about six months into a new 120G reef tank. Nothing too complicated - lights, skimmer, powerhead, heater, return pump. I’ll use a Tunze ATO when I’m out of town, and AWC isn’t feasible.

I like the idea of an Apex for fault monitoring (bad heater, bad pump, power outage (?)) and to monitor tank parameters. But wondering if it’s really worth it if my system isn’t overly complicated. Are there other systems I should consider?

Thanks in advance!

I have 2 Apex (1 classic 1 2015 model). I find them convenient - for doing maintenance on the tank (i.e. turning off selective equipment) - I find them useful if you aren't able to spend a fair bit of time around your tank - monitoring it yourself (i.e. you travel alot, etc) - the alerts (which usually have worked) - are very helpful.

I have found some of the modules to be unreliable - and prefer to use whatever controller comes with a product I buy (for example - lights, gyre, etc).

There is an advantage to using a well established company as compared to a startup - or one which may have a less well developed customer service system - but other than that I dont see a huge advantage of Neptune over others.

As to being 'worth it' - it depends on your budget, the value of the stuff in your tank etc. Most of the things the Apex does can be done by a surge suppressor, there are multiple ways to measure temperature (digitally), Salinity can be easily measured with a refractometer, I don't find ORP useful personally others do etc

 

[stanleo]

It's a fantasy wish for me. But I don't think its worth it. I have a enough time to check everything as often as I want and I too have a 120 with sump, fuge but no reactors. I do have a temp controller for the heaters and that is absolutely worth it and wish I had done it sooner.

 

[TheHarold]

I wouldn't set up another tank without one. Beyond the huge convenience, it has saved my butt so many times...

 

[Sleepydoc]

I was surprised to read the Apex BRS reviews...more 1 star comments then I would have expected.

For some reason, Neptune has become a company that some people love to hate. I think it may have a bit to do with Terrance being a bit over-evangelistic with his product. To be fair, they’re not perfect and have had some issues but I don’t think they quite deserve all of the negative comments they get.

Regarding the original poster’s question I have to say that virtually all of the replies here are correct. A controller is kind of like a smart phone - you don’t need one until you have one then you don’t know how you survived without it. My favorite example is a post that Marc Levenson had on his site about a 10,000 public reef tank in Manhattan - it was run without any sort of controller. It also had full time staff monitoring everything.

A controller is a wonderful tool for monitoring and automating your tank. My job means I’m away a lot of nights and weekends, so it helps tremendously. The other thing you will find is that once you get one, you find more and more uses for it.

Example - I got a Apex a couple years ago. The EB832 has switchable 24V outlets on the EB832, so I got some 24V LED strip lights and put them in my sump. THen I got a magnetic switch and put it on the breakout box so the sump lights come on whenever I open the door. Necessary? no, but it sure is convenient!

I also have an optical sensor in my ATO reservoir. If the water level gets low, I get a notification on my phone and the ATO pump turns off so I dont’ have to worry about the pump burning out. Again, if I’m diligent and check my tank every day I should catch that, but life gets in the way sometimes.

Whether you get a full controller like an Apex or not, the one controller I would absolutely get is a temperature controller like the Ranco mentioned above. That can absolutely save Your tank.

 

[SashaM24]

I've ran an apex system for over 7 years. It's great to have the data and see what your tank is doing. However, that doesn't mean you can still neglect it. You will still need to perform maintenance and make sure your probes are functioning. Beyond that, I love the fact that I can check the tank while I'm out of town. Definitely gives me a piece of mind that I can keep an eye on the tank when I'm miles away. The alarms are beyond helpful, even if you are just sitting on your couch. If you have the money and can afford it, I say go for it.

 

[destro]

I've been running my Apex system for about a week now. I must say it's nice to be able to monitor parameters from my phone. Some would say it's a luxury and others would say it's vital. I have trust issues with anything new so I manually test and compare results.

If you like simplicity and saving your money, I wouldn't jump into Apex.

If you have extra coin for toys and tinkering it's great. So far I enjoy the architecture of this system. Ie. Fusion and modules. It's opening a new learning curve for me. For example I didn't know or cared for what ORP meant before. Or did you know seawater has a temperature correction factor of 2.1% to 2.3% per °C. Stuff that I come across now since I have probes.

I'm pacing my self and still have a ton to learn. It's really another reason to enjoy the hobby longer and a another reason for my family to call me a nerd!

 

[ca1ore]

A few thoughts:

1. A controller, regardless of brand is a nice-to-have rather than a must-have. I do agree with the smart phone analogy though.
2. None of the options available to us meet the industrial quality bar, so you need to understand limitations and design your system appropriately. For me this means mostly monitoring and alerting.
3. I personally selected the apex because of the more robust support communities .... and then secondarily because as the market share leader (admittedly an assumption on my part) the company was more likely to survive in the long term. Doesn’t seem to me that folks account for this adequately (not exclusive to controllers either).

I never bothered with a controller until my tank got complicated. Now it helps me keep things straight.