Apex USB over Ethernet

fowler279 · Nov 1, 2021

I just moved my nano upstairs and converting it to a small frag/coral QT tank. My main display is downstairs where all my Apex equipment will be. Was thinking about purchasing another EB832 for the nano upstairs but running the aquabus to where the main display is would be near impossible. I do have plenty of ethernet ran to both locations. Has anyone tried doing the Aquabus USB over Ethernet to extend it instead of straight aquabus? Link below of what im thinking.

USB over Ethernet

_AV · Nov 1, 2021

Assuming there are some active components inside, this will not work as aquabus usb is not a standard usb at all. It runs 12v instead of 5v and will fry those adapters you linked.
Instead, you can make your own adapter by wiring usb connectors to ethernet connectors and running a standard Cat5 or 6

fowler279 · Nov 1, 2021

_AV said:
Assuming there are some active components inside, this will not work as aquabus usb is not a standard usb at all. It runs 12v instead of 5v and will fry those adapters you linked.
Instead, you can make your own adapter by wiring usb connectors to ethernet connectors and running a standard Cat5 or 6

Ok easy enough. Was trying to get away without all the splicing but oh well. Thanks for the info.

homer1475 · Nov 2, 2021

I've used regular USB cords in place of aquabus, never an issue.

These just use one end, and wire them into another different end(wire to wire). I see no reason they wouldn't work.

I don't think you would fry anything giving them a try.

_AV · Nov 2, 2021

homer1475 said:
I've used regular USB cords in place of aquabus, never an issue.

These just use one end, and wire them into another different end(wire to wire). I see no reason they wouldn't work.

I don't think you would fry anything giving them a try.

Huh?
From the description:

This simple USB adapter converts USB signals into a form that can be transmitted over Ethernet cable, then reassembled into a standard USB signal at the other end.

homer1475 · Nov 2, 2021

_AV said:
Instead, you can make your own adapter by wiring usb connectors to ethernet connectors and running a standard Cat5 or 6

I had assumed this is exactly what those were. Already prewired.

But we all know what happens when you assume.

shwareefer · Nov 2, 2021

That description is not magical conversion of signals as they want you to believe. It's wires attached to wires. It would absolutely work assuming the apex signal can travel as far as OP intends. However the quality of conductors inside is unknown and could degrade rapidly at 12v. I would look for something rated for USB 3 if it exists.

_AV · Nov 2, 2021

shwareefer said:
That description is not magical conversion of signals as they want you to believe. It's wires attached to wires. It would absolutely work assuming the apex signal can travel as far as OP intends. However the quality of conductors inside is unknown and could degrade rapidly at 12v. I would look for something rated for USB 3 if it exists.

The amount if misinformation is truly astounding...

Also, why would you need a USB 3.0 for a signal that travels at 19200 baud? And is not even a USB signal at all.

Here's the teardown video of this specific adapter:

shwareefer · Nov 2, 2021

No idea what you are trying to prove. A video of guy who doesn't know why there's a chip in an adapter. As for USB 3, I assumed the conductors would be more robust - zero to do with baud. I'll leave it at that, you are obviously the smartest person in the room.

_AV · Nov 2, 2021

shwareefer said:
No idea what you are trying to prove. A video of guy who doesn't know why there's a chip in an adapter. As for USB 3, I assumed the conductors would be more robust - zero to do with baud. I'll leave it at that, you are obviously the smartest person in the room.

There are no conductors in the adapter itself. The conductor is the Cat5 cable. These adapters are not straight wire to wire as you are claiming. That is shown in the video. Those ICs inside the adapter will indeed "degrade rapidly at 12v" by releasing magic smoke immediately and potentially damaging the CAN transceivers inside the EB832 they are connected to.

Apex equipment doesn't need users help to fail. Let's not make it fail more often than it already does.

Gtinnel · Nov 2, 2021

I have also wanted to have a longer run from a 1link module (or eb832) from a different room in my house to my tank. So if I take a USB cable cut it in half and then splice a cat6 cable in the middle that will work? My run would be a total of something a little less than 50 feet.

Also, I believe a USB cable is only 4 wires where as the network cable is 8. Would I only use 4 of the wires on the network cable, or would it be better to attach two wires from the network cable to each wire in the usb cable?

_AV · Nov 2, 2021

Gtinnel said:
I have also wanted to have a longer run from a 1link module (or eb832) from a different room in my house to my tank. So if I take a USB cable cut it in half and then splice a cat6 cable in the middle that will work? My run would be a total of something a little less than 50 feet.

Also, I believe a USB cable is only 4 wires where as the network cable is 8. Would I only use 4 of the wires on the network cable, or would it be better to attach two wires from the network cable to each wire in the usb cable?

1link is actually a 24v port and is wired very differently inside the eb832. It's also not a USB type cable. You should have no problem extending it over a long distance with a cat5 cable. Cat5 has multiple twisted pairs. I'd use one pair for the data pins and another for the power pins. The remaining two pairs can be left disconnected.

If you decide to extend a "USB" type cable, which is 12v, I'd be a bit more careful with the distance, especially for powered non EB832 modules. They provide very weak 12v output and may fail doing so over a long distance.
I discuss this issue here:

Apex FMM Module Causes Head Unit Reboot

Some of my previous repairs: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/repairing-eb832-aquabus-power-issues-or-why-head-unit-reboots-again.830684/ https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/another-attempt-at-fixing-apex-eb832.804717/...

www.reef2reef.com

and here:

Repairing EB832 AquaBus Power Issues or Why Head Unit Reboots Again

Some of my previous repairs: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/eb832-attempting-to-communicate-with-apex-bootloader-mode.811958/ https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/another-attempt-at-fixing-apex-eb832.804717/...

www.reef2reef.com

And also here:

and here:

Gtinnel · Nov 2, 2021

_AV said:
1link is actually a 24v port and is wired very differently inside the eb832. It's also not a USB type cable. You should have no problem extending it over a long distance with a cat5 cable. Cat5 has multiple twisted pairs. I'd use one pair for the data pins and another for the power pins. The remaining two pairs can be left disconnected.

If you decide to extend a "USB" type cable, which is 12v, I'd be a bit more careful with the distance, especially for powered non EB832 modules. They provide very weak 12v output and may fail doing so over a long distance.
I discuss this issue here:

Apex FMM Module Causes Head Unit Reboot

Some of my previous repairs: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/repairing-eb832-aquabus-power-issues-or-why-head-unit-reboots-again.830684/ https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/another-attempt-at-fixing-apex-eb832.804717/...

www.reef2reef.com

and here:

Repairing EB832 AquaBus Power Issues or Why Head Unit Reboots Again

Some of my previous repairs: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/eb832-attempting-to-communicate-with-apex-bootloader-mode.811958/ https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/another-attempt-at-fixing-apex-eb832.804717/...

www.reef2reef.com

And also here:

and here:

Sorry I should've been more clear. I'm wanting to attach a 1 link module (or possibly eb832 I haven't decided which) to the brain with an extended USB (Aquabus) style cable. I'm not talking about extending the 1link cable itself. I was justing connecting the1link module. I see how that could've been confusing.

Thanks for the info.

_AV · Nov 2, 2021

Gtinnel said:
Sorry I should've been more clear. I'm wanting to attach a 1 link module (or possibly eb832 I haven't decided which) to the brain with an extended USB (Aquabus) style cable. I'm not talking about extending the 1link cable itself. I was justing connecting the1link module. I see how that could've been confusing.

Thanks for the info.

Ah, so its an aquabus USB cable to connect two modules, one of them has 1link ports. Makes sense and you can proceed with extending the USB cable. Just keep in mind my warnings about cable length and passive modules attached to it.
I really need to write an article and do video on this... The subject keeps coming up.

Gtinnel · Nov 2, 2021

_AV said:
Ah, so its an aquabus USB cable to connect two modules, one of them has 1link ports. Makes sense and you can proceed with extending the USB cable. Just keep in mind my warnings about cable length and passive modules attached to it.
I really need to write an article and do video on this... The subject keeps coming up.

Honestly if it's easier to extend a 1link cable, I may just extend the 1link cable itself and leave the module near my tank. I had asked on this forum before and was told that it absolutely wouldn't work extending a 1link cable to that length. If I extend a 1link cable would cat6 cable be sufficient or would you recommend using a larger cable like an 18 Guage thermostat cable?

_AV · Nov 2, 2021

Gtinnel said:
Honestly if it's easier to extend a 1link cable, I may just extend the 1link cable itself and leave the module near my tank. I had asked on this forum before and was told that it absolutely wouldn't work extending a 1link cable to that length. If I extend a 1link cable would cat6 cable be sufficient or would you recommend using a larger cable like an 18 Guage thermostat cable?

cat5 or cat6 is sufficient. For 1link extension I'd recommend combining 2 to 3 twisted pairs for the power pins, which effectively increases your total wire gauge to the point where you can run most of the 24v modules safely over a long distance.

The key here is that 1link 24v power is generated by a beefy 100w power supply built in to an EB832 and is distributed directly from the PSU over the wire. While the aquabus 12v power is sourced from the same 24v power supply but then 24v is converted to 12v using a weak circuit which cannot handle a significant load.