APEX vs. GHL: Let's Discuss the Differences, Pros & Cons

[tony'stank]

I’m one of the dinosaurs that is afraid of the programming required for a controller. I can use my Mac computer, my iPad and my iPhone but the idea of setting up an Apex is daunting. My black box led lights are programmable vi a an iPhone but I’ve never been able to set th em up. I use a mechanical timer. None of my local LFS has the expertise to help me

 

[zieg9479]

Apex ... will require you to use advance programming language when a function you want are not presented on the drop down menus.

GHL...will be able to program advance logic through those drop down menus as they can today through the GCC desktop app, never having to use a programming language and I believe we have access to more options because of what is already available within the desktop app.

As someone who doesn't mind learning the syntax of a language..Question for the audience.
1) Does either Apex or GHL allow for the creation of new functions. I noticed that some Apex examples seem to be a burdensome-ly long. Is there a way to clean that up by writing wrappers? I believe it would reduce user errors crashing a tank. And it would be nice if entirely new functions could be written...
2) Or, is this a non-issue? In other words, does the current library of functions seem to accomplish all the processes that one would want out of a controller?
I'm thinking about things like lunar cycles. If one wanted to create a lunar cycle and that functionality was not supported (as it wasn't in the past) it would not be trivial to create a lunar cycle line-by-line.

So I imagine there will be complex processes one might want to do now (can't think of any examples) that would be a hassle to write in as the base functionality currently stands..

 

[laverda]

As someone who doesn't mind learning the syntax of a language..Question for the audience.
1) Does either Apex or GHL allow for the creation of new functions. I noticed that some Apex examples seem to be a burdensome-ly long. Is there a way to clean that up by writing wrappers? I believe it would reduce user errors crashing a tank. And it would be nice if entirely new functions could be written...
2) Or, is this a non-issue? In other words, does the current library of functions seem to accomplish all the processes that one would want out of a controller?
I'm thinking about things like lunar cycles. If one wanted to create a lunar cycle and that functionality was not supported (as it wasn't in the past) it would not be trivial to create a lunar cycle line-by-line.

So I imagine there will be complex processes one might want to do now (can't think of any examples) that would be a hassle to write in as the base functionality currently stands..

I can only speak for the Apex.
I have never had any connectivity issues with my Apex classic or even my older Aquacontroller once set up. Network connections can be complicated due to all the variables of routers and modems in use on different networks. I don't think most of the connectivity issues are specifically do to Apex issues.
1) yes. Some are long as people do some pretty complex things with them.
2) All common functions are covered. Lunar cycle has been standard as far back as the Neptune Aquacontrollers from 20 years ago. I doubt there is much that the Apex cannot be programmed to do. The Apex can do pretty much anything you would like it to do.

 

[LoneStarReef]

I personally bought and love the 2016 Apex. Lot of things you can do with it (auto water change, auto feeder, WAV system, etc). Support from Neptune and the community here has been stellar. Bit of a learning curve if you aren’t big time tech savvy. They went through a huge bump in the road last year with some software problems which has been the only bad thing I have heard about them. Things have definitely leveled out now. If you decide to go with the GHL @d2mini can put his 2 cents as well. I think he has really liked his.

 

[Handegard]

As far as the connectivity issues go- they come down to expectation, lack of knowledge, and price, all in one.

802.11g WiFi has become a commodity. As a result, lots of devices are getting WiFi, but we compare it to our phones or laptops which decidedly don’t have the $1.45 WiFi chipset.

The Apex WiFi works. But stick it in a cabinet, with dozens of cords wrapped around it, under 120 gallons of water, and yeah, expect some attenuation .

I’ve found through my installs that simply being conscious of the location of the WiFi source can alleviate all signal issues. If the router is directly above you on the second floor, don’t put the apex under the tank. Mounting the apex is a considered manner is all it takes. And off course, nothing beats twisted pairs of copper.

 

[Jeffdstafford]

To throw my experience out there; I've been using Apex for 5 years now and absolutely love the system, and its ease-of-use. I, however, am an equipment junkie, so I also invested in a full Profilux 4 system along with the new KH Director..to justify the purchase I said I'd run the Profilux as a backup redundant system, as I've got a 500g reef and a separate fish room with a total 900g of water volume in the system. I've had the Profilux system sitting on a shelf plugged in but doing nothing, because so far I've gotten frustrated within minutes of logging into it and find it very, very difficult to get simple programming accomplished.

However, I will mirror someone's earlier sentiment; Marco with GHL customer support has provided, by far, the greatest customer support experience I've ever encountered with any company. He's gone above and beyond trying to help me get up and running..I've never had anywhere close to that service with Neptune. But on the other hand, I've never really needed that much support with the apex

My last caveat: I'm definitely not sufficiently motived to learn the profilux language since it's just a side project and the Apex is running the system..so if I was depending on the profilux to support the system, I'm sure I would have tried much harder to learn its very complicated and non-user friendly interface

 

[Tiger-Paws]

That is a beautiful set-up.

When will manufactures (not just in the aquarium industry) learn to make their equipment EASY to use?

I just installed an Apex on my little system (Red Sea Reefer Nano) and it has been easy and very useful.

Note I have a Reef Savvy decked out to the max on order.

 

[dangros]

My hesitance with the APEX System is that I've heard (and read) where "many" people have reported that the APEX System has consistently suffered technical issues with staying "connected". In fact, this is a common complaint I've observed on various forums and aquarium groups about APEX. And if I am going to spend that kind of money, I want something that is #1) Reliable... #2) Stable... AND #3) easy to use and program. If it's going to be constantly going down and off-line, I might as well keep doing things manually like I've been doing it all these years. Can anyone confirm or deny these connectivity issues that I keep hearing about ???

I've had the apex classic for about 4 years now. It's hardwired and was rock solid for all but the last couple months. Suddenly, the apex controller will stop communicating w/Fusion and I cant even log into it directly from my local network. It shows active on the network and continues to run fine but connectivity to the outside world is fine. The only thing that fixes it is a reboot of the controller. Nothing else is wrong w/the connection as I have cameras and other items I can connect to w/o issue during these "outages". So yes, even w/a wired connection. I'm considering going w/a replacement or GHL at the moment

 

[WWIII]

To throw my experience out there; I've been using Apex for 5 years now and absolutely love the system, and its ease-of-use. I, however, am an equipment junkie, so I also invested in a full Profilux 4 system along with the new KH Director..to justify the purchase I said I'd run the Profilux as a backup redundant system, as I've got a 500g reef and a separate fish room with a total 900g of water volume in the system. I've had the Profilux system sitting on a shelf plugged in but doing nothing, because so far I've gotten frustrated within minutes of logging into it and find it very, very difficult to get simple programming accomplished.

However, I will mirror someone's earlier sentiment; Marco with GHL customer support has provided, by far, the greatest customer support experience I've ever encountered with any company. He's gone above and beyond trying to help me get up and running..I've never had anywhere close to that service with Neptune. But on the other hand, I've never really needed that much support with the apex

My last caveat: I'm definitely not sufficiently motived to learn the profilux language since it's just a side project and the Apex is running the system..so if I was depending on the profilux to support the system, I'm sure I would have tried much harder to learn its very complicated and non-user friendly interface

I know this thread is a little older, but thought I'd chime in again now that I've had the p4 about 8 months. There is a programming language on the p4, but I haven't used it yet. I just select the outlet I want to control and click on the preset dropdown option I want. No language necessary. I do want to learn the programmable logic eventually, unfortunately (or fortunately) I haven't had to use it yet and managed to get all my gear setup and it has run flawlessly. I have 3 powerbars, the kh director, 2 2.1 dosers, and a maxi doser. The new web interface, cloud, app is all streamlined and very user friendly. That wasn't an option a couple months ago, not from outside the home network without port forwarding anyways.

 

[Steve1310]

My hesitance with the APEX System is that I've heard (and read) where "many" people have reported that the APEX System has consistently suffered technical issues with staying "connected". In fact, this is a common complaint I've observed on various forums and aquarium groups about APEX. And if I am going to spend that kind of money, I want something that is #1) Reliable... #2) Stable... AND #3) easy to use and program. If it's going to be constantly going down and off-line, I might as well keep doing things manually like I've been doing it all these years. Can anyone confirm or deny these connectivity issues that I keep hearing about ???

I lived my apex and had never had a issue until 2 days ago ! Mine is wired and only a 6 foot cord from my router! My power went out that night for just a second and came right back on ! Pretty much the lights flickered and it corrupted my apex ! It wouldn’t connect to fusion and none of my outlets worked! So pretty much my entire system went down except my 6 mp40s which I had on battery back ups and my lights which I control over my reeflink ! Since my apex controlled my heaters and everything I sent a email and a guy called me and helped me fix my main unit and showed me how to get everything else up and running but still don’t have one of my eb8s up and running! My apex won’t recognize it ! I’m a longshoreman so I can’t really schedule a appointment because I don’t know if I work until 3 to 6 hrs ahead of time most of the time so I couldn’t get support to help out with the other eb8 ! Since this is so hard to get time for support to help and I can’t seem to find any other way to get it to connect I am seriously considering changing to ghl if it’s more reliable! My hole tank counts on those eb8s working !

 

[Steve1310]

I know this is a old thread but hopefully someone can give me some insight on which one is more reliable and easier to fix without having to be right there and jump through hoops with tech support! Thanks

 

[WWIII]

I lived my apex and had never had a issue until 2 days ago ! Mine is wired and only a 6 foot cord from my router! My power went out that night for just a second and came right back on ! Pretty much the lights flickered and it corrupted my apex ! It wouldn’t connect to fusion and none of my outlets worked! So pretty much my entire system went down except my 6 mp40s which I had on battery back ups and my lights which I control over my reeflink ! Since my apex controlled my heaters and everything I sent a email and a guy called me and helped me fix my main unit and showed me how to get everything else up and running but still don’t have one of my eb8s up and running! My apex won’t recognize it ! I’m a longshoreman so I can’t really schedule a appointment because I don’t know if I work until 3 to 6 hrs ahead of time most of the time so I couldn’t get support to help out with the other eb8 ! Since this is so hard to get time for support to help and I can’t seem to find any other way to get it to connect I am seriously considering changing to ghl if it’s more reliable! My hole tank counts on those eb8s working !

Sorry about your current issue with the apex. Your setup is amazing! I can only speak from the little over a year that I've had Ghl products, but the hardware/software is extremely reliable. I've lost power several times, including just a flicker and the Profilux, dosers, powerbar come back to normal no problems. I've heard about this issue with Apex more than a couple times from users here and on fb. Kinda puts ya dead in the water (no pun intended) without the powerbars online and working. I don't recall any reports of this happening with the Profilux.

I guess the other thing you could do would be to implement a USP for the Apex system for the short power outages. But the issue with the eb8s is still a little worrisome.

 

[WWIII]

I know this is a old thread but hopefully someone can give me some insight on which one is more reliable and easier to fix without having to be right there and jump through hoops with tech support! Thanks

I've haven't had anything happen with my profilux to need support for yet. I have used GHL support for a doser issue and some setup help, which they have been very responsive and helpful. The profilux just never has any issues. I've had the system for around a year.

 

[Steve1310]

Yeh I know ! Thanks for the info ! Yeh I gotta feeling I’ll probably be switching over pretty soon ! I didn’t get any notifications on my phone or anything and I I’ve got it set up for it but since it lost connection with fusion it didn’t send me anything! Luckily I was home ! Thanks again and I’ll def be checking out the ghl soon

 

[WWIII]

Yeh I know ! Thanks for the info ! Yeh I gotta feeling I’ll probably be switching over pretty soon ! I didn’t get any notifications on my phone or anything and I I’ve got it set up for it but since it lost connection with fusion it didn’t send me anything! Luckily I was home ! Thanks again and I’ll def be checking out the ghl soon

Yeah Apex fusion is nice! But not when it doesn't work. GHL's app is very good now as well. A year ago they used myghl, but the app has made a big difference for monitoring and controlling when away from home!

 

[siggy]

Here we go again....JK ....tagging for later

 

[Steve1310]

Yeh I’m not asking for much ! It would be nice to know that when u lost power and it came back on it least everything would work again !!!!!!! Instead I had to wipe my entire apex clean and start from scratch and still catch get one of my eb8s to connect ! Or get tech support to help since I work crazy hrs and can’t set up an appointment!!!!!

 

[Ditto]

@Steve1310 - sorry about what happen stability is very important feature and the main reason I took the plunge and swapped out and still no regrets.

@WWIII is spot on the app is great now for GHL montoring and programming most of the tank functions remotely controlled and monitored and has come a long way in less then a year.

 

[Bob Escher]

I know this is a old thread but hopefully someone can give me some insight on which one is more reliable and easier to fix without having to be right there and jump through hoops with tech support! Thanks

I have had my APEX For years both wired and not wired. I went to the 2016 model six months ago.
I haven’t haven’t had a problem in that time. I am on cable. I have a cable modem and I have my own router behind that. For the last two and half years I have had static IP’s.
Have I had disconnects yes but everything has come right back up.
Have I rebooted the system, rebooted my router yes

Have a purposefully disconnected and or reconnected or restarted everything Absolutely
Has fusion gone down yes
But everything gas reconnected

I’m not going to sit here and say no one has had issue, I can’t I just telling you for me. And my two controllers APEX has been rock solid.

By the way I have a full system other than not having WAV’s and ddr, but I do have two DOS and everything else I can think of

 

[Mark Gray]

I lived my apex and had never had a issue until 2 days ago ! Mine is wired and only a 6 foot cord from my router! My power went out that night for just a second and came right back on ! Pretty much the lights flickered and it corrupted my apex ! It wouldn’t connect to fusion and none of my outlets worked! So pretty much my entire system went down except my 6 mp40s which I had on battery back ups and my lights which I control over my reeflink ! Since my apex controlled my heaters and everything I sent a email and a guy called me and helped me fix my main unit and showed me how to get everything else up and running but still don’t have one of my eb8s up and running! My apex won’t recognize it ! I’m a longshoreman so I can’t really schedule a appointment because I don’t know if I work until 3 to 6 hrs ahead of time most of the time so I couldn’t get support to help out with the other eb8 ! Since this is so hard to get time for support to help and I can’t seem to find any other way to get it to connect I am seriously considering changing to ghl if it’s more reliable! My hole tank counts on those eb8s working !

I understand you situation, I am not a long shore man but I am on call 247, off to the Ukraine at the end of the month. I I am 100% Apex also I will stay this way, for the cost and for the help that I have gotten in the past. I won't bash but think about this before you jump, I have one small system one large system. Good luck you might try an appointment if it doesn't work just say that in your ticket beforehand