Apex vs Hydros

[n2585722]

Man, Hydros is good and sucks all in one. The controllers don’t talk via Wi-Fi. The data-only cable is a rip-off through this dealer scam. I’m close to selling this trash and going back to just watching corals and Salifert.

What is the issue with a data only cable. The only time you should need one is if your controllers are more that 14ft apart. I use one between my controllers in the garage and the controllers at the tank. All others are the normal data power type cables. There is also a third party that sells adapters to go from command bus to CAT5 and back but you would have to use a CAT5 cable that is not connected to anything other than the Hydros adapters and not go through any splitters or other equipment. Why do you need a data only cable if it is not longer than 14ft?

 

[n2585722]

Man, Hydros is good and sucks all in one. The controllers don’t talk via Wi-Fi. The data-only cable is a rip-off through this dealer scam. I’m close to selling this trash and going back to just watching corals and Salifert.

One reason for the controllers communicating using the command bus is if you loose wifi communications the controllers will still communicate with each other and still control the tank without the wifi as long as you are not using the wifi strips. The controllers use the CAN protocol to communicate with each other. There is also power shared between them as long as the cable is not over 14ft in length. The wifi strips will stay in what ever state they are in when wifi communication is lost so you would not want to use them for ATO, AWC or dosing for sure. The only reason for using a data only cable less than 14ft is if you want to use one of the power supplies that connects directly to the command bus but if you have another source of power then one of those is not needed anyway. The XP8, XD, X10, wave engines and Kraken will supply power over the bus to other controllers such as the X2, X3, X4 and XS. I have had 6 controllers connected together on a single source of power from one of the power givers. Let us know if you have a question on the command bus.

 

[xtianGEO]

So, this is my experience with Hydros so far. I ordered the X4+X8 combo, and it worked. I set up my Kalk reactor. Hydros doesn’t have programming code; it’s all menus, which are poorly documented. I received an X10 for alkalinity and salinity. It came with a data power cable, so the X10 isn’t part of my setup since I only have two cables. Then, I set up the IV, which was quite annoying. I lost a tube collet in the process—does anyone know where I can get another one? The IV pill wouldn’t spin, so I had to open the IV, which is made of cheap PLA and 3D printed. I soldered the loose wires and am now running tests. Honestly, Hydros feels like the Android of aquarium controllers: nothing is specifically tailored for it. It’s just a bunch of components cobbled together from TEMU. I’ll give it some time, but really, to whoever is working at Hydros: there’s a premium for quality and ease of operation.

 

[xtianGEO]

Ok here is what I came up with. I used 2 outputs and 2 schedules to do this. If I made any mistakes with the times or number of times you want the Ozone available let me know. I will keep these setup for a while just to make sure. Now for the first output which is the ozone output and controls the output port powering the ozone generator. This uses the standard ozone generator output type. If it is during one of the scheduled time for it to run it will come on if the ORP is below 355 and will go off if it get above 360. This output depends on another output I called ozone timer. The dependency mode is set to off if off. So if the ozone timer output is off then the ozone output will be off. If it is on then the ozone generator output will function as it is setup to do. Next I will go into the setup of the ozone timer below the screenshot of the ozone generator.

Ok I decided the best bet was to use schedules since they can also be set to day of the week. The easiest way I could see was to setup a simple doser output since those use schedules and set it to a flow rate of 1ml a minute. That way a dose of 20 would equate to 20 minutes. Below is the settings for ozone timer. The dosing schedules split the time frame set in the schedule into sections by the number of doses. The dose will start at the beginning of each section of time.There is no output device set for this output since it is only used for logic. The notify when reservoir below set to 0 since there is no actual reservoir that needs to be refilled. No need to calibrate either since there is no actual dosing pump. I also set the icon for this output to a clock since it is used as a timer instead of the normal dosing pump icon. Now I will post the two schedules below the ozone timer screenshot.

Below is the first schedule for the ozone generator. This schedule I called Ozone schedule 1. It is the one that controls it coming on from 9am to 12pm every hour which is 4 times. The schedule type is set to dosing regimen since I used a dosing output for the ozone timer. This schedule does not use dynamic dosing since it will stay on the same amount of time each time. The total dose per pump is the total dose for the entire time of the schedule. This is set to 80 since we want to it on 20 minutes for 4 times an hour apart. doser 1 which is the only one for this schedule is set to the ozone timer output. As stated in the output it is set to 1ml a minute. Active in modes I did not change but you could set it so the schedule will not run if it is in certain modes. The start time is set to 9:00 am. The end time is set to 1:00pm since I wanted the last scheduled on time to start at 12:00pm. When it splits the time up into the individual sections it also has to have the off time after the on time so that is why it is at 1:00pm instead of 12:00pm. The schedule will only run Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday. That is set in run on days of week. The only other setting that does not show on the screenshot is the depends on setting and that was left at unused for this schedule. Below the schedule screenshot below I will go to schedule 2.

Now to ozone schedule 2. This schedule is basically the same except for start and end time and it runs all days of the week. This one starts at 10pm and the end is 6am since this one runs every 2 hours and it has to have the end 2 hours after the start of the last on time. All days are on on this but if you wanted you could turn of specific days on this one also. You can have multiple schedules per pump as long as there are not 2 schedules active at the same times. You can have 2 schedules for the same times as long as you use modes to keep only one as active or use depends on to make sure only one can be active. Hope this helps. Let me know if you have questions.

Here is a couple of screenshots with the outputs on. One at the beginning and one near the end. The benefit of the dosing output is it has a countdown of the dose which in this case would be minutes and tenths of a minute. The 2 outputs are the last 2 under outputs.

Oh wow, thanks again. But this is what I mean. Hydros method is much more complicated than a few lines of code.

 

[n2585722]

So, this is my experience with Hydros so far. I ordered the X4+X8 combo, and it worked. I set up my Kalk reactor. Hydros doesn’t have programming code; it’s all menus, which are poorly documented. I received an X10 for alkalinity and salinity. It came with a data power cable, so the X10 isn’t part of my setup since I only have two cables. Then, I set up the IV, which was quite annoying. I lost a tube collet in the process—does anyone know where I can get another one? The IV pill wouldn’t spin, so I had to open the IV, which is made of cheap PLA and 3D printed. I soldered the loose wires and am now running tests. Honestly, Hydros feels like the Android of aquarium controllers: nothing is specifically tailored for it. It’s just a bunch of components cobbled together from TEMU. I’ll give it some time, but really, to whoever is working at Hydros: there’s a premium for quality and ease of operation.

The X10 can be added to the XP8 and X4 with the normal dat power cable since the XP8 and X10 power input is isolated from the command bus. Just don't get a power supply that connects directly to the command bus and hook it up. Those only come in the starter kits with the X2, X3, X4 and XS.I have 2 X10, XP8, WEv2 and Kraken at my tank and all supply power to the bus and are connected using the standard command bus cables. I have a XS and X3 with them and a data only cable running the 35ft to the garage where a Kraken, XP8, X4, XD XS and 2 X2's are at. As far as ease of operation I have had no issues with the Hydros but ai came from the Digital Aquatics controllers and they did not have coding either. Coding is not easy for a lot of people. There is a learning curve to any controller system and if you are from another system it sometimes makes it harder than someone that has never used one. Here is a link to the parts for the X10 pumps https://store.coralvue.com/retainer-sleeve-for-dosing-pump-pair . Also here is a photo of my 2 X10's and Kraken on the controller board. The XP8, WEv2, X3 and axS are in the electronics cabinet of the stand there was not enough room for the Kraken and 2 X10's in there though.

 

[n2585722]

So, this is my experience with Hydros so far. I ordered the X4+X8 combo, and it worked. I set up my Kalk reactor. Hydros doesn’t have programming code; it’s all menus, which are poorly documented. I received an X10 for alkalinity and salinity. It came with a data power cable, so the X10 isn’t part of my setup since I only have two cables. Then, I set up the IV, which was quite annoying. I lost a tube collet in the process—does anyone know where I can get another one? The IV pill wouldn’t spin, so I had to open the IV, which is made of cheap PLA and 3D printed. I soldered the loose wires and am now running tests. Honestly, Hydros feels like the Android of aquarium controllers: nothing is specifically tailored for it. It’s just a bunch of components cobbled together from TEMU. I’ll give it some time, but really, to whoever is working at Hydros: there’s a premium for quality and ease of operation.

I forgot to add that if you add a controller to a collective all setup settings will be erased so you will need to setup everything in the collective you have setup on the X10 when you do add it so you might want to take screenshots and make sure you have enough calibration fluids to recalibrate once you add it. Also make sure you have enough time to do all of that. I ran my X10 iV system separate for the first three months of use. I did add a simple doser for the drain pump on the iV so I would have 2 of the pumps on the X10 to dose All For Reef and a KH buffer using dynamic dosing. I is part of the collective now.

 

[xtianGEO]

The X10 can be added to the XP8 and X4 with the normal dat power cable since the XP8 and X10 power input is isolated from the command bus. Just don't get a power supply that connects directly to the command bus and hook it up. Those only come in the starter kits with the X2, X3, X4 and XS.I have 2 X10, XP8, WEv2 and Kraken at my tank and all supply power to the bus and are connected using the standard command bus cables. I have a XS and X3 with them and a data only cable running the 35ft to the garage where a Kraken, XP8, X4, XD XS and 2 X2's are at. As far as ease of operation I have had no issues with the Hydros but ai came from the Digital Aquatics controllers and they did not have coding either. Coding is not easy for a lot of people. There is a learning curve to any controller system and if you are from another system it sometimes makes it harder than someone that has never used one. Here is a link to the parts for the X10 pumps https://store.coralvue.com/retainer-sleeve-for-dosing-pump-pair . Also here is a photo of my 2 X10's and Kraken on the controller board. The XP8, WEv2, X3 and axS are in the electronics cabinet of the stand there was not enough room for the Kraken and 2 X10's in there though.

Yes, the X4 and X8 can be connected. My X4 came with a power data cable to use with the X8 as a bundle. My X10 came with a plug, so I have no extra cable to complete the loop. Hydros should take a cue from Apple and develop a can with an attachable plug. They could sell all the controllers with a cable and sell the plug as an accessory, or include it for an additional 50 cents. Also, why go through the hassle of creating templates when you still have to create workarounds for simple things like an ozone schedule? By the way, your workaround was great but still very complicated compared to simple OSC or <> commands. I feel like a broken record listing all these complaints. I’m returning the IV because I don’t want to pay for something that needed repairs right off the bat. I’m considering dumping the Hydros on the market and forgetting about the company until it gets bought by BRS. I really wanted another player in the market but don’t feel like Hydros’ UI is polished enough.

 

[n2585722]

Yes, the X4 and X8 can be connected. My X4 came with a power data cable to use with the X8 as a bundle. My X10 came with a plug, so I have no extra cable to complete the loop. Hydros should take a cue from Apple and develop a can with an attachable plug. They could sell all the controllers with a cable and sell the plug as an accessory, or include it for an additional 50 cents. Also, why go through the hassle of creating templates when you still have to create workarounds for simple things like an ozone schedule? By the way, your workaround was great but still very complicated compared to simple OSC or <> commands. I feel like a broken record listing all these complaints. I’m returning the IV because I don’t want to pay for something that needed repairs right off the bat. I’m considering dumping the Hydros on the market and forgetting about the company until it gets bought by BRS. I really wanted another player in the market but don’t feel like Hydros’ UI is polished enough.

You will still have to power the X10 using it's power supply but it sounds like all you need is a command bus cable. Without the power supply the pumps and drive ports will not work since they are not powered by the command bus. The command bus cables come in 1ft, 6ft and 14ft lengths for the data+power cables. I usually keep at least one 1ft and one of the 6ft lengths just in case I forget to get one when ordering things. They do not supply the command bus cable with controller kits since not everyone buying one will need it. It is only needed if you are connecting the controller to a collective. The Pro Kits have them since they have 2 controllers in the package and you need it to power the X4 or X3 using the XP8 even if you don't use them in a collective. I have a build thread here on R2R that has a lot of info on the Hydros starting when I got my first devices in November of 2020. Here is a link to the page where the Hydros info starts https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/canopy-and-stand-build-for-42-gallon-hex-tank.317822/page-6 . It start at post #119. A lot had changed since the start. I love the Hydros but it is very similar to the RKE and Archon which I was using previously. I have never liked the looks of the Apex or the previous unit before the Apex. That is the main reason I went with the Digital Aquatics back in 2008. I seen screenshots of the Apex and do not like them at all but that is just my personal preference. The Hydros makes a lot more sense to me the way it is setup. I have never had an issue with any of the Hydros gear I have gotten and I have always found a way to get the Hydros it to do what I want it to. I would have a big problem with the coding since I have never had to do that with any of the controllers I have had so far. Like I said if it is different than what you are used to it will take some time to get used to doing things differently. I would be completely lost trying to get the Apex to do what I want. There are people always ready to help at figuring out how to do something specific with the Hydros when you need the help. In the build thread I go over using the Hydro in the garage and sending signals between my Archon and the Hydros to begin with. I started out in the garage and slowly added to it until it now does everything for the tank. It was a lot of fun for me doing it though. Sorry to hear about the issue with the iV. Have you submitted a support ticket for that issue to CoralVue?

 

[xtianGEO]

No, I haven’t submitted a ticket. I will just return it to BRS as defective, considering that the IV is essentially just a beaker with a magnetic pill. I can make my own. However, is it possible to perform isolated pH and salinity testing? I will probably switch to manual testing and use Versa pumps. Are you interested in an XP or X4? That is, skip the Alk test?

 

[n2585722]

No, I haven’t submitted a ticket. I will just return it to BRS as defective, considering that the IV is essentially just a beaker with a magnetic pill. I can make my own. However, is it possible to perform isolated pH and salinity testing? I will probably switch to manual testing and use Versa pumps. Are you interested in an XP or X4? That is, skip the Alk test?

The iV also is the holder for the probes and the tubing. It would not be worth it for me to try and make one myself since I have no printer to do it with but my time would be worth more to me than the amount the iV cost since it would take a few hours to do. My wife would kill me if I bought more controllers right now. I just got one for Christmas and that makes 14 of them and I only have one tank. I did have more modules that that on the Archon so it is about the same if you consider that. I do have both the pH and salinity isolated in the iV but also have both in the sump also.

 

[xtianGEO]

The iV also is the holder for the probes and the tubing. It would not be worth it for me to try and make one myself since I have no printer to do it with but my time would be worth more to me than the amount the iV cost since it would take a few hours to do. My wife would kill me if I bought more controllers right now. I just got one for Christmas and that makes 14 of them and I only have one tank. I did have more modules that that on the Archon so it is about the same if you consider that. I do have both the pH and salinity isolated in the iV but also have both in the sump also.

Yes, what is programming to forgo the alk in hydros and maybe get a Kamoer tester or mastertronic

 

[Jasonak]

I have both apex and hydros and Im really liking the hydros. My only concern is that if I loose wifi connection while on vacation to my power bar that controls my heater that I might be in trouble. I wish there was a hardwired version.
Ive been using hydros for 6 months on my fish only tank.
Been using neptunes systems for 15 years on my reef tank,

 

[n2585722]

At this time there s no way to do just pH and salinity without doing the alkalinity but that feature has been requested. You can alway use the ports as realtime ports until that happens though. I have both pH and salinity setup as realtime ports. You would just set them up as normal ports. If you setup those ports using the iV output they will more than likely be set to invisible but you can make them visible by going to pages from the left menu. Then click on the page that you want them to show on and then check the show invisible items box like in the screenshot. Not sure if you were aware that you can create different pages and select which tiles show on the page so you can seperate items like if you have RODi control you have all that show on a page and have a different page for the tank. I do have one page I call all that has all the controllers, inputs, outputs, wifi devices and third party devices. Once you have them visible you can go into the settings and set them to visible and just use them for the readings since they are realtime already. You can also change the name but it will delete the graphs and start new with them. I will also post my testing page I have setup as an example. It only has tiles that are related to testing. I use an iPad when accessing the app the phone is not easy to use. There is also a web app you can use with w browser so you can access on a computer if you want. Here is a link to that https://www.coralvuehydros.com/ . This link also has the online manuals if you want to access them. clicl on web app to start the web app. The manuals click on setup. You can also get to the the link above by clicking on help in the right menu of the app. To select what shows on a specific page click on one of the icons in the category and hold a couple of seconds. Then they will show with a check box in the upper right of the icons. Chick on that to check or uncheck it if it is unchecked it will no longer show on that page unless you go into this mode. To get out just press and hold one of the icons for a couple of seconds and then release. each mode you have it in for each category is different so you will have to do the same for each if you are going to use them.

 

[n2585722]

I have both apex and hydros and Im really liking the hydros. My only concern is that if I loose wifi connection while on vacation that to my power bar that controls my heater that I might be in trouble. I wish there was a hardwired version.
Ive been using hydros for 6 months on my fish only tank.
Been using neptunes systems for 15 years on my reef tank,

The XP8 is the controller version of the power bar. It is a controller so it connect via command bus and Has 8 outlets for the ports. You will need a command bus cable and two terminators to connect and create a collective with it and you other controller. If that controller came with the power supply that plugs directly to command bus port discontinue using it. The XP8 can power the controllers as long as they don't have a power supply that connects to a separate power port other than the command bus port. Those you will still need to use. I also got a UPS for my cable modem and router just in case I loose power. Since I have battery backup on my Hydros I will still be able to communicate with it without power at least for a while.

 

[Jasonak]

HI
I have the XS controller.
I will look into the power bar your talking about. Im little confused by your expiation of how to use it. But ill do some reading.

The XP8 is the controller version of the power bar. It is a controller so it connect via command bus and Has 8 outlets for the ports. You will need a command bus cable and two terminators to connect and create a collective with it and you other controller. If that controller came with the power supply that plugs directly to command bus port discontinue using it. The XP8 can power the controllers as long as they don't have a power supply that connects to a separate power port other than the command bus port. Those you will still need to use. I also got a UPS for my cable modem and router just in case I loose power. Since I have battery backup on my Hydros I will still be able to communicate with it without power at least for a while.

 

[n2585722]

HI
I have the XS controller.
I will look into the power bar your talking about. Im little confused by your expiation of how to use it. But ill do some reading.

It is a controller but just had the 8 AC outlets on it so it will need to be in a collective with your other controller or controllers you already have so it will have access to inputs such as the temp sensor. Since it is a controller you can setup the output to either come on and remain on of go off and remain off if the input were to become unavailable. It also has power monitoring on the outputs. I have 2 50 watt heaters that are on separate output that I use their onboard thermostats as a backup. I also have the power limits set to between 45-55 watts so if it get out of that range with the output on I will get an alert. So if the thermostat in the heater opens up due to higher heat than it is set for I will get an alert for low power. I set the thermostats about 3 degrees above the Hydros settings. Below are the setting for one of them. I have 2 temp sensors on 2 different controllers so both of them are used but you can use just one if that is all you have.

 

[xtianGEO]

At this time there s no way to do just pH and salinity without doing the alkalinity but that feature has been requested. You can alway use the ports as realtime ports until that happens though. I have both pH and salinity setup as realtime ports. You would just set them up as normal ports. If you setup those ports using the iV output they will more than likely be set to invisible but you can make them visible by going to pages from the left menu. Then click on the page that you want them to show on and then check the show invisible items box like in the screenshot. Not sure if you were aware that you can create different pages and select which tiles show on the page so you can seperate items like if you have RODi control you have all that show on a page and have a different page for the tank. I do have one page I call all that has all the controllers, inputs, outputs, wifi devices and third party devices. Once you have them visible you can go into the settings and set them to visible and just use them for the readings since they are realtime already. You can also change the name but it will delete the graphs and start new with them. I will also post my testing page I have setup as an example. It only has tiles that are related to testing. I use an iPad when accessing the app the phone is not easy to use. There is also a web app you can use with w browser so you can access on a computer if you want. Here is a link to that https://www.coralvuehydros.com/ . This link also has the online manuals if you want to access them. clicl on web app to start the web app. The manuals click on setup. You can also get to the the link above by clicking on help in the right menu of the app. To select what shows on a specific page click on one of the icons in the category and hold a couple of seconds. Then they will show with a check box in the upper right of the icons. Chick on that to check or uncheck it if it is unchecked it will no longer show on that page unless you go into this mode. To get out just press and hold one of the icons for a couple of seconds and then release. each mode you have it in for each category is different so you will have to do the same for each if you are going to use them.

How are you testing ca, mag, nitrate?

 

[n2585722]

How are you testing ca, mag, nitrate?

I use the Hanna testers and do it once a week. Those are called a static input type on the Hydros. You can create them and just add the reading when you do it. I don't do all the alkalinity test all the time now. Usually it is just the Hanna on that except for the one from the iV, but that one is scheduled 4 times a day.

 

[Peair]

Hello Reef2Reef,

Thank you for taking the time to review my post. I've recently upgraded to a larger tank and am currently exploring options for controllers. While I have a brand new Apex system still in its box, I'm considering switching to Hydros. My experience with Apex has been somewhat disappointing, leading me to think it might be time for a change. However, transitioning to a Hydros system would mean purchasing an entirely new setup and investing in its ecosystem to achieve similar functionality. I'm open to making this change, but I'm cautious about moving from one unsatisfactory experience to potentially another. Additionally, could anyone advise on a fair asking price for my unopened Apex system?

I have never used Apex, I was out of the hobby for over 10 1/2 years, but I use Hydros Coralvue and I like their system very much, it is a little challenging for me, but I like things that are challenging, I feel good when I set up a sensor or pump controller in their app and it works, I like their products allot, but I feel that they are a little overpriced for what they do, and it is almost impossible to get their products on sale because of their map controlled pricing that they like to use, maybe I have to wait till Christmas to get a good deal on their X10 controller that I really want.

 

[bratfink]

Lots of great discussion and information on the available systems here.

But I’m old and don’t like change, so I’m sticking with my Digital Aquatics Reefkeeper.