Apex worth it with current setup?

Deiblerj · Oct 4, 2018

rkpetersen said:
1. Monitoring. Set it up to text you if there's a problem with temp, pH, or a hundred other things you can customize. Check your entire system status from almost anywhere on your phone with the app.

2. Automation and programming. Set it to turn off pumps and skimmer at the push of a button, for feeding time or maintenance, and they'll automatically start up again after a time you set. Automate lights. Set up simple optical or float switches to do things like, for example, turning your skimmer off and sending you a text if your skimmer cup fills unexpectedly. Hundreds of other things. Automatic top off and dosing also come to mind, but those are additional modules.

Gotcha...so the moduals like vdm or wxm would plug into the 0-10? Can you add a 0-10 to the EL?

Bayareareefer18 · Oct 4, 2018

Deiblerj said:
So I guess I’m confused. If the 0-10 is used for variable settings such as lights, pumps, skimmers, etc...what is the benefit of the Apex other than being able to turn things on and off? Is there no variable control outside the 0-10? Sorry this is somewhat new to me

For me I figured I would never go apex as much system is not all that elaborate being my first build. The release of the EL completely changed my mind.

I love having the alerts. Love the power monitoring. I have also gained a lot of insight with the ph monitoring.

It's a huge benefit to be able to turn things off for feed mode. Anytime my return pump goes off my skimmer automatically turns off and waits 5 minutes after return comes on before it restarts.

I definitely plan on expanding the system for more convenience, stability and safety

rkpetersen · Oct 4, 2018

Deiblerj said:
Gotcha...so the moduals like vdm or wxm would plug into the 0-10? Can you add a 0-10 to the EL?

Not quite. All modules are connected through the Aquabus. That's those two ports at the upper right in the picture above. It's Neptune's proprietary use of USB ports and cables for communication. (Don't even think about plugging any normal USB devices into these ports, you can literally fry everything.) The 'brain', energy bar, and all modules are connected by Aquabus cables and just like USB, you can keep adding more modules, branch off one module to two more modules, and so on. A VDM or WXM module connects to the brain (or another module) by Aquabus cable. The connection serves as both power to the module and communication. Each module itself has the jacks it offers, like 0-10V variable speed ports for the VDM, or RF transceiver like the WXM so it can talk to Ecotech devices.

Technewb · Oct 4, 2018

I want an apex myself but seems like its just a smart plug. I have multiple smart plugs at around $20 on amazon, that I use to auto shut on/off pump, lights, ect and I can set times/ control everything on phone app. Say you get a seneye or aqua mutant for temp moniter (cheaper) then your only missing salinity monitor and orp which most wont use. This is where im heading, aqua mutant temp controller on app($130), smart wifi strip x3 around $20 each. You get a lot more plugs to control more equipments. Control everything and monitor from your phone. What else does an apex do? So tempting to get an Apex though.

Bayareareefer18 · Oct 4, 2018

Technewb said:
I want an apex myself but seems like its just a smart plug. I have multiple smart plugs at around $20 on amazon, that I use to auto shut on/off pump, lights, ect and I can set times/ control everything on phone app. Say you get a seneye or aqua mutant for temp moniter (cheaper) then your only missing salinity monitor and orp which most wont use. This is where im heading, aqua mutant temp controller on app($130), smart wifi strip x3 around $20 each. You get a lot more plugs to control more equipments. Control everything and monitor from your phone. What else does an apex do? So tempting to get an Apex though.

I was using wemo switches and an inkbird for temp control and I can say having the apex is far better imho

A wifi switch is not going to alert you of a pump failure like the apex will among many other benefits

Technewb · Oct 4, 2018

Bayareareefer18 said:
I was using wemo switches and an inkbird for temp control and I can say having the apex is far better imho

A wifi switch is not going to alert you of a pump failure like the apex will among many other benefits

Interesting, I didn't realize Apex can notify when an equipment has failed. How does it know say if my return pump died?

rkpetersen · Oct 4, 2018

Oh couple more things about the Apex.
Now has built-in control for AI Hydra HD and Prime lights available; no additional hardware required.
And, I think I can mention that the Amazon Alexa skill for Apex (which is really cool) has been submitted to Amazon for final approval.

Bayareareefer18 · Oct 4, 2018

Technewb said:
Interesting, I didn't realize Apex can notify when an equipment has failed. How does it know say if my return pump died?

If the return outlet is on but it is not drawing any power you can have it alter you.

Each outlet learns the pattern of the device plugged into it. It will give you a max, min and average of the power consumption.

You can see alerts should those values ever get out of range

So if return pump is set to on but it craps out it would alert me

Technewb · Oct 4, 2018

Bayareareefer18 said:
If the return outlet is on but it is not drawing any power you can have it alter you.

Each outlet learns the pattern of the device plugged into it. It will give you a max, min and average of the power consumption.

You can see alerts should those values ever get out of range

So if return pump is set to on but it craps out it would alert me

Thank you, time to do more research on it.

rkpetersen · Oct 4, 2018

Technewb said:
Interesting, I didn't realize Apex can notify when an equipment has failed. How does it know say if my return pump died?

Set alarm conditions for the Return Pump Wattage and Return Pump Amperage data inputs. The two common failure modes for most pumps involve either increased amperage or decreased wattage. Check the Input Logs graphs for device amps and watts after running your pumps under normal conditions for awhile, and then set the alarms with appropriate multipliers. For example, if a pump suddenly draws >1.5x its normal amperage, something is wrong. Ditto if it draws less than 50% of the normal minimum wattage. Apex knows when pumps are actually turned off, so you won't get false alarms for 0 wattage; nonetheless, best to set the cutoff point higher, because a failing or failed pump could still be drawing some watts.

Bayareareefer18 · Oct 4, 2018

Technewb said:
Thank you, time to do more research on it.

Also nice to show the significant other the tank is only costing $20 a month to operate

Good thing the apex doesn't log AquaSD expenditures lol

rkpetersen · Oct 4, 2018

Bayareareefer18 said:
Good thing the apex doesn't log AquaSD expenditures lol

oh man...

vetteguy53081 · Oct 4, 2018

rkpetersen said:
Nope, it doesn't. It has the breakout box port, but no variable speed ports.

They removed the third (bottom) printed circuit board and associated connections for the EL. ORP, salinity, and 2 varspd ports.

Just dawned on me. Where do WAV pumps get connected to?

Deiblerj · Oct 5, 2018

rkpetersen said:
Not quite. All modules are connected through the Aquabus. That's those two ports at the upper right in the picture above. It's Neptune's proprietary use of USB ports and cables for communication. (Don't even think about plugging any normal USB devices into these ports, you can literally fry everything.) The 'brain', energy bar, and all modules are connected by Aquabus cables and just like USB, you can keep adding more modules, branch off one module to two more modules, and so on. A VDM or WXM module connects to the brain (or another module) by Aquabus cable. The connection serves as both power to the module and communication. Each module itself has the jacks it offers, like 0-10V variable speed ports for the VDM, or RF transceiver like the WXM so it can talk to Ecotech devices.

You have made this so clear...thank you!

To me, it’s doesnt make any sense to spend the extra $300 on the regular apex especially if you need the moduals to run specific equipment anyways. Like I have Kessil lights so wouldn’t I need the vdm anyways, especially since I have the spectral controller. Plus I have an MP40 so I’d rather just use the spectral controller I already have and spend the money on wxm for the MP40 if I go with apex.

I see why people stick with one company now such as ecotech for everything!

Terence · Oct 7, 2018

vetteguy53081 said:
Just dawned on me. Where do WAV pumps get connected to?

There are three 1Link connections on the Energy Bar 832. The Energy Bar 832 comes with both the Apex and Apex EL models.

ca1ore · Oct 7, 2018

I would agree that $500 seems way too high for a used classic; and that that same amount would be far better spent on the new EL. The things that the EL does not do can be added over time as connected modules. My initial foray into apex was with the lite, and that it what I did.