aptasia out of control

[SeymourDuncan]

I have a client who lives 2hrs away and I cannot be at his house to control his aptasia infestation.


He bought the tank used and fully mature...just populated with aptasia, we knew this when he bought it. The value of all the equipment, rock, fish, corals, and extras easily tripple what he paid for it. Upon purchase I warned him there was aptasia in the tank and it would be a hard to manually remove all of them via poisoning. I told him to get some berghia and toss in more peppermint shrimp, he even got a filefish who won't touch the things.

In the month, it has gotten worse...at least 100 in a 110gallon tank.

If it were me I would sell the fish, inverts, and coral, or at least find a temp home for them.

I would take out every drop of water and take out the aquascaping. I would dry out the rock for a week along with the sand and start over from scratch.
This is not an option to him as he doesn't want to lose his fish. We tried aptasia x, but that only works on ones you see. He has successfully shot up over 30 of them.

Are there any alternatives to mass murdering aptasia that don't require drying the rocks? I had a small outbreak on a rock I got and took it out asap to dry and soak in vinegar....now that works better than anything! But sadly, cannot do his rocks that way.

Any ideas would help a lot, id hate to make him part with his fat happy fish.

We tried nudibranch, ppmnt shrimp, and filefish...copperband butterfly was in discussion, but not so much. The only corals are a huge rock of button polyps.

 

[_Alex_]

How many Bergia did you use?? Because if they can not find one another in the tank to breed they will not work. I put 6 in our 75 gal all in the same spot that had a lot of Aptasia near by. With in a few weeks we started seeing tiny baby Bergia and Aptasia disappearing. Within 3-4 months all the Aptasia were gone.


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[ckozma]

Berghia nudibranch will absolutely get rid of the aiptasia as this is all that they eat. One of the problems may be that they did not live because they are one of peppermint shrimp's favorite foods! If you could get rid of the peps and add more berghia it would work.

 

[Murfman]

Another option is a Copper Banded Butterfly. The one caveat is that they can some times go after LPS. They also eat feather dusters.

 

[Pkunk35]

Berghia nudibranch will absolutely get rid of the aiptasia as this is all that they eat. One of the problems may be that they did not live because they are one of peppermint shrimp's favorite foods! If you could get rid of the peps and add more berghia it would work.

Ugh, i've had this problem in my dad's 90gal.

+1 agree with ckozma. berghia will absolutely get rid of aiptasia but as mentioned I believe you need a lot for that size tank...there is a user here that sells them in packs of 20, his username is jlinzmaier. He also believes it is the offspring that do most of the pest control so numbers are important for mating. Also think the pep shrimp gotta go if using berghia as said. Feedings need to slow down to only spot feeding to reduce their reproductive rate. All debris and detritus gotta go too so vacuum the sand well.

Don't try to get rid of them in one day...take out portions of rock and eradicate what you can on the rock and do this consistently. Manual removal combined with berghia will work but it takes some time if you have carpet-like amounts of aiptasia.

Don't rely on a copperband to eradicate...you'll only feed the aiptasia trying to feed the copperband. Pep shrimps will work too but I find them inconsistent and they are too good at finding tastier menu items in the tank like pods or worms.

If the person is unwilling to do that kind of work, i think the only resolution would be to do as you said and redo the tank completely.

GL man...sounds like a lot of work but would be worth it if done!

 

[SeymourDuncan]

Ok, I will talk at him. Its up to him to do the work since I'm so far away so we will see. Its not carpeting, more like dandelioning lol.

So in order from most likely to least likely these are my non chemical options?
1)start over
2)berghia
3)filefish/copperband
4)peppermints

I am going to see if he wants to be a member here. he is new to the hobby, but doing very well as far as taking advice and doing things smart, which is wondeful because its almost like doing things myself .

This is what I do to a rock as soon as I spot an aptasia.
Place rock in bucket of ro water w/ 3 cups vinegar and 1/3rd bottle of iodine. Soak it with an air stone for 3 days and then hose it of really well. Soak it in RO for a day, the sun dry for 3. Now I can put it in my purpling tank. (A 29g with only actinic lighting, powerheads, and a bit of mature coralined rubble)

 

[Mufasa31]

In the past I've had success with killing the large ones with kalk paste and letting the peppermint shrimp take care of the ones that develop from the spores.

 

[SeymourDuncan]

In the past I've had success with killing the large ones with kalk paste and letting the peppermint shrimp take care of the ones that develop from the spores.

I think the problem he is running into is finding the ones that are not out in the open, The tank is really tall too, so reaching every rock requires a ladder and getting your neck wet! haha.
I am going to tell him to try adding more berghia, I need to get a price from the person selling them, i will pm them and find out.

Do peppermints eat berghia? I think he has at least one in there. HE added 2 nudis a couple weeks ago, hasnt seen em yet. I think they are either mowing down the ones out of sight first, so maybe when they run out of hiding ones they will be seen up front...or they got eaten by a shrimp if that is the case.

 

[Pkunk35]

Ok, I will talk at him. Its up to him to do the work since I'm so far away so we will see. Its not carpeting, more like dandelioning lol.

So in order from most likely to least likely these are my non chemical options?
1)start over
2)berghia
3)filefish/copperband
4)peppermints

I am going to see if he wants to be a member here. he is new to the hobby, but doing very well as far as taking advice and doing things smart, which is wondeful because its almost like doing things myself .

This is what I do to a rock as soon as I spot an aptasia.
Place rock in bucket of ro water w/ 3 cups vinegar and 1/3rd bottle of iodine. Soak it with an air stone for 3 days and then hose it of really well. Soak it in RO for a day, the sun dry for 3. Now I can put it in my purpling tank. (A 29g with only actinic lighting, powerheads, and a bit of mature coralined rubble)

#1 and #2 are for sure answers...the berghia less so but if they aren't hunted they are voracious aiptasia eaters (expensive tho!)

Personally i wouldn't want to wait for peps or copperband to eradicate in a case like this...i think they are much more useful as measure of control once the populations die down. Peppermints may work if you removed all fish and stopped feeding tho.

You have a purpling tank? That's cool!


edit: the peps are at the least eating the berghia eggs which are just spiral cases of snacks for them on the rocks. they gotta go along with most anything else that will snack on the berghia eggs IMO.

You may be right in that cleansing all the rock may be the easiest solution here, Warlock...the tank sounds huge with lots of rock and populated.

 

[SeymourDuncan]

Its only 110 gallons, but its a tall square...my 150 is 6ft and up to my waste, so I have it made when it comes to maintaining my own reef. Setting his tank up empty was even a chore lol...but it was really fun and we had a great time. Love having Clients I can Hang out with.

Yeah, the purpling tank was inspired from GARF. which I think i have everything on their site finally read. Holy ****ake Mushroom BAtman. I make aragocrete for people and when i started, they were leary of them b/c of the color. I found the article on how Garf starts their rocks and made a tank dedicated to "Purpling." Not the politically correct term, as I often get more than just Purple Coraline...(anyone ever see white before? or is that something completely different).

I have my house packed down to move, so when I reset everything up I am doing a whole Re-Build Thread on my entire in-home operation which may evolve into much larger things if it takes off.
Live rock production, Culturing Food, Breeding, Fragging, Growing, Color manipulating, Filtration, and more. It will probably give me carpal tunnel from writing it though, which ANEMONE STINGS are great antidotes to. I sometimes would porpoisely sting myself before going to Shred on my Guitar and it helped bring the Racer X out in me. WOO PAUL GILBERT!!!

 

[secretreefer]

I would honestly remove all shrimp, fish (if they're common enough he can always sell them to good homes and buy new ones after aptasia eradication). Lower the flow in the tank, seed the tank with berghia nudibranch. They seem to be the only "complete eradication" tool (besides removal of all rock) when used in correct conditions and properly. i've tried kalk, aptasia x, joe's juice, lemon juice injection, hot water injection. That didn't kill them all, I actually ended up having more for some reason after treatment????? Finally I just took all my rock out and shot it down with a pressure washer and dried in the summer sun for 3 weeks. (i broke down my 180g to sell anyways)

 

[SeymourDuncan]

He is going to end up going the rock removal route I am sure. Catching everything will involve removal anyhow. Plus he is going to try a Kleins Butterfly...which I informed was not the best of ideas.

Hippo tang, Nemo, Foxface, Filefish, and a CBS are his fish n shrimps. there are a ton of stars and other little critters though. He might end up with a 1000 dollars credit if he takes all of it haha. ok, maybe not a stack...but still alot of livestock.

 

[secretreefer]

cool bro. good luck to your buddy! These things (and worse, haha like a complete tank crash for me :crossedlips happen. Tell him if he needs to stock up his tank with some PE's and zoas he can drop me a PM. i'll definitely hook him up. :xd:

 

[SeymourDuncan]

Im trying to get him to join R2R so he can put up pics of his setup.
He is a busy guy with all those aptasia, so he may not have time lol.
I have had sudden fish deaths before, but nothing that was over 200 bucks at once. (which at the time was alot). I learned alot and read a ton before I started into the trade. Now the only issue I have is a small frag with bubble algae for the first time ever, Worse case scenario i chop the zoas off and glue em to a clean rock. There are only 2 on there so its not even a problem worth researching. My guess..they came with the frag.
In fact, I have hard times keeping herbivores period w/o feeding them myself, which also led to a coldwater gracilaria setup to save money.

I am really anal about my stuff though, and can watch an icecube melt completely. This has led to a lack of experience as far as problems go. lol. I have to base my knowledge off other peoples experiences when I run into other tanks with issues.
I appreciate it alot, although am sorry the hard way is such a popular means for learning. Im not perfect at this, but i try to treat my tank as if I were living in it in the form of a Mer-MAn. ARHRHRHHGHGHG I want it clean. lol. Mermaids have odd taste in men, youd think a walrus would have a better chance with one.

Anyhow, I will let you guys know how the progress goes, in the meantime...ALWAYS START WITH DRY ROCK! 2 weeks solid of actinic lighting to accelerate coraline is MUCH CHEAPER than curing aptasia on a rock that may not even be as purple as it can get. You can always find someone with a nice clean purple piece of rubble to seed.

I also have a request to anyone in the same boat as most....If your pet store has aptasia, do not ask them how to prevent it, they obviously don't know. It is so easy to buy a coral with one on it and not get it in your system. Since ALL OF YOU QUARANITE (sarcasm) you have the opportunity to do some measures of removal. Worst case scenario you acclimate the coral long enough to frag the biggest chunk you can and just remove the rock with the base of the coral to dry out, leaving you with a slightly smaller coral and no aptasia. Or you can shoot it with juice and risk getting your coral in the crossfire. There is no reason anyone should have one uninvited besides lack of knowledge and/or just not trying.

I have had one case of them that came on a rock that was dry for a few days before putting it in the tank, and i immediately removed it. Other than that I have been aptasia free since the beginning, unless you count Green Star polyps. Those suckers are even harder to eradicate and will survive for 8 days outside in Indiana in the summer. Trust me. They can be shipped in a poptart box full of sawdust and be fine haha

 

[Pkunk35]

i've tried kalk, aptasia x, joe's juice, lemon juice injection, hot water injection. That didn't kill them all, I actually ended up having more for some reason after treatment?????

i swear, if you don't kill the aiptasia on the first try they try to bud off tiny ones in an effort to survive...this is my theory anyway. The tiny ones are way worse than the big ones!

i did see this this gravel vacuum that somebody created that could supposedly pull aiptasia off of rock. I bet if you zapped them and vaccuumed the body up they would stay gone.

[video=youtube;63n-uN52qfQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63n-uN52qfQ&feature=youtu.be[/video]

 

[SeymourDuncan]

Pkunk, I agree. I did the vinegar on it and it dissolved the bugger, but only into smaller pieces that became more. The suction would be a good idea. Either during water changes or with a trigger to turn it on real fast. You could really do alot of kalking that way and it wont mess the water up too much. I am going to try to get one of those 1w laser beams some day and charge people for removal, during which I will educate them on preventative means. I will also dress like the ghostbusters. But that is for another thread. More likely the lounge lol.

 

[SeymourDuncan]

Ok, The LFS near him told him this (as i chuckled a bit),"Feed only Nori for 2 weeks, and mysis every 3 days. Add a Kleins Butterfly."

They might as well said, "Throw in 2 aspirin after a meal because IMO that seems like a worse idea than not doing anything...wont the butterfly just "propagate" the aptasia?

 

[secretreefer]

Im trying to get him to join R2R so he can put up pics of his setup.
He is a busy guy with all those aptasia, so he may not have time lol.
I have had sudden fish deaths before, but nothing that was over 200 bucks at once. (which at the time was alot). I learned alot and read a ton before I started into the trade. Now the only issue I have is a small frag with bubble algae for the first time ever, Worse case scenario i chop the zoas off and glue em to a clean rock. There are only 2 on there so its not even a problem worth researching. My guess..they came with the frag.
In fact, I have hard times keeping herbivores period w/o feeding them myself, which also led to a coldwater gracilaria setup to save money.

I am really anal about my stuff though, and can watch an icecube melt completely. This has led to a lack of experience as far as problems go. lol. I have to base my knowledge off other peoples experiences when I run into other tanks with issues.
I appreciate it alot, although am sorry the hard way is such a popular means for learning. Im not perfect at this, but i try to treat my tank as if I were living in it in the form of a Mer-MAn. ARHRHRHHGHGHG I want it clean. lol. Mermaids have odd taste in men, youd think a walrus would have a better chance with one.

Anyhow, I will let you guys know how the progress goes, in the meantime...ALWAYS START WITH DRY ROCK! 2 weeks solid of actinic lighting to accelerate coraline is MUCH CHEAPER than curing aptasia on a rock that may not even be as purple as it can get. You can always find someone with a nice clean purple piece of rubble to seed.

I also have a request to anyone in the same boat as most....If your pet store has aptasia, do not ask them how to prevent it, they obviously don't know. It is so easy to buy a coral with one on it and not get it in your system. Since ALL OF YOU QUARANITE (sarcasm) you have the opportunity to do some measures of removal. Worst case scenario you acclimate the coral long enough to frag the biggest chunk you can and just remove the rock with the base of the coral to dry out, leaving you with a slightly smaller coral and no aptasia. Or you can shoot it with juice and risk getting your coral in the crossfire. There is no reason anyone should have one uninvited besides lack of knowledge and/or just not trying.

I have had one case of them that came on a rock that was dry for a few days before putting it in the tank, and i immediately removed it. Other than that I have been aptasia free since the beginning, unless you count Green Star polyps. Those suckers are even harder to eradicate and will survive for 8 days outside in Indiana in the summer. Trust me. They can be shipped in a poptart box full of sawdust and be fine haha

LOL @ poptartbox full of sawdust!!!!!!

 

[Pkunk35]

Ok, The LFS near him told him this (as i chuckled a bit),"Feed only Nori for 2 weeks, and mysis every 3 days. Add a Kleins Butterfly."

They might as well said, "Throw in 2 aspirin after a meal because IMO that seems like a worse idea than not doing anything...wont the butterfly just "propagate" the aptasia?

The klein, like peps or copper band, would most likely eat a wide variety so won't be able to keep up with aiptasia explosion.

Now I think I'm liking the idea of pulling fish and treating rock...not sure if as new reefer this guy wants to try and kill hundreds of aiptasia and the LFS near him sounds a bit dubious...

Get this guy on R2R!

 

[SeymourDuncan]

Its not just around him, its around Most of Indiana...They aren't all bad, but 99% do not cure their own aptasia...Their cure for ich is UV and garlic...and they would rather sell sick fish than take an extra month to quarantine..now the places I go do actually have a stock of fish in the back that are not for sale until healthy...and i have had great success with purchasing from them with no need to medicate. But!!! they dont sell any medications that are not 'herbal.' so no copper treatment unless I order online. SUcks in emergencies across the state lol.

I had the idea to set up a 10g with one aptasia colony on it in with the filefish, starve him to the point of eating them, then toss him in the display.
Also keeping one or two alive for the butterfly if he gets one.
Those would be worth a shot i would think before drastic measures, which at this point seem to be the only option. But at least he could enjoy one more fish before doing a whole restart. If He does that gives me the opportunity to design an efficient sump. Right not it is a 20g with no baffles and a skimmer i only saw in pictures. It has no valves whatsoever, so the sump has to be at the exact place at all times, which is impossible without ATO and baffles. Plus there is no fuge, which I try to get all my buddies on. (great time to harvest my chaeto and thin out the mangroves lol...plus i like to replace 10 percent of my sand every 5 months, it seems to make for great water, and mature live [aptasia free] reef sand is not something you can get around here.)
I am going to at least make it so he can go a day without adding RO since he goes on trips sometimes. , the skimmer when in fluctuating water shot me from 6 ft away with foam...his wife would kill him if it got her next.

I am trying to get him on, i send him links relevant to his situations..so he does make it that far, and thats a start